Assetto Corsa Competizione Version 1.8.11 Released to Steam

theguy69 · Feb 9, 2022

Has the toe thing been completely fixed or is it still more beneficial to run max negative toe on front and rear?

maranello78 · Feb 9, 2022

Congratulations for Kunos, i think they are making a great work with all these fixes, improving the game, now i hope they will release new content for the PC fans, now they are busy with launch on console, but don´t forget PC users please. I´m dreaming on a DLC with "Blancpain Legends" with cars like Mercedes Sls, Ferrari 430 or Aston Martin Dbrs9, could be a dream come true

Riky_Sim · Feb 9, 2022

Knows someone how important was the gain using this negative toe trick?

DrRob · Feb 9, 2022

Riky_Sim said:
Knows someone how important was the gain using this negative toe trick?

I think it was mostly related to running very negative toe values without having any impact on tyre wear. You could exploit this with some cars, I believe other cars were not allowed to have such negative toe values from the start (you could not dial in such negative values ingame).
Not sure if there was any substantial gain in lap time. I heard people saying there was on some car/track combos.

Kyuubeey · Feb 9, 2022

I haven't confirmed it, but it sure looked like the AC1 code might allow decreasing RR from RR_SLIP_GAIN if toe is negative sign. If that same code carried over to ACC, then no wonder. It is a bit funny.

The weird thing is in AC1 it didn't seem to decrease RR indefinitely though, there was a cap. I guess the setup values in ACC don't reach that cap.

Also one thing that was found is that the setup toe value actually does switch sign at a negative value, so a conspiracy-theory tier explanation is that the setup options are obfuscated and toe is not what it appears. Didn't look into it myself.

Riky_Sim · Feb 9, 2022

In fact I was always wondering why those tuning values were allowed.

They have no sense.

Kyuubeey · Feb 9, 2022

Riky_Sim said:
In fact I was always wondering why those tuning values were allowed.

They have no sense.

High toe-out in the front certainly isn't uncommon although IRL is typically less because the wheel has compliance and the typical sims don't include that.

*That* high toe-out is quite rare in the rear in GT cars I do admit, it's more of a FWD or AutoX thing.

I imagine KS goes with the approach of allowing the full range of adjustment as per IRL, which can be quite wide. You typically need toe adjustment range towards negative to account for any other kinematic changes you make that might toe-in the wheel. I've even seen some older racecars spec toe-out in the rear although it is very limited and their geometries are very different from GT3 geometries.

Riky_Sim · Feb 9, 2022

Anyway.. I kniwn that sims always have struggled with the extrem setups. There is always a hole were you can have advantage without the proper cons. Knkwing that I would limit the tuning range for some parameters.

wolftree · Feb 9, 2022

It's a common problem with sim racing setups that extreme values that would never work in real life somehow work because some aspect of reality isn't modelled to a sufficient degree.

Most physical tyre model -based sims have the "feature" that running the minimum tyre pressures possible is usually fastest because either tyre failures aren't modelled at all (or races are too short for it to matter), or the increased rolling resistance and lack of cornering stiffness isn't sufficiently penalised. Without increasing the complexity of the tyre model, it seems very difficult to address such features.

Kyuubeey · Feb 9, 2022

wolftree said:
It's a common problem with sim racing setups that extreme values that would never work in real life somehow work because some aspect of reality isn't modelled to a sufficient degree.

Most physical tyre model -based sims have the "feature" that running the minimum tyre pressures possible is usually fastest because either tyre failures aren't modelled at all (or races are too short for it to matter), or the increased rolling resistance and lack of cornering stiffness isn't sufficiently penalised. Without increasing the complexity of the tyre model, it seems very difficult to address such features.

Generally yeah. Like for example if you add in a realistic amount of longitudinal grip increase at lower pressures, but don't penalize the lateral enough, that alone is enough to basically destroy your modeling. Then this stuff all depends on the camber and load too, which just about no sim does right.

Also, cornering stiffness goes up with lower pressure, not with higher. At least if data is to be believed. KS has it reversed in their tires in AC1 and I'm not surprised if others do as well. Took me some time to see some real data too; it seems intuitive that higher pressure = stiffer = more cornering stiffness. Seems to not be that way at all.

Cornering stiffness is the slope of the slip angle linear region basically, it won't inherently increase or decrease grip.

eg01st · Feb 9, 2022

COTA and GT2 when?

wolftree · Feb 9, 2022

Kyuubeey said:
Also, cornering stiffness goes up with lower pressure, not with higher. At least if data is to be believed. KS has it reversed in their tires in AC1 and I'm not surprised if others do as well. Took me some time to see some real data too; it seems intuitive that higher pressure = stiffer = more cornering stiffness. Seems to not be that way at all.

Which way it goes can depend on the lateral force, see Figs. 7 and 17 of Kasprzak, Lewis, Milliken. Inflation Pressure Effects in the Nondimensional Tire Model, SAE Transactions, 2006.

Peter Kerényi · Feb 9, 2022

Anybody else having frequent ACC crashes since the 1.8 update? Nothing before that...

Kyuubeey · Feb 9, 2022

wolftree said:
Which way it goes can depend on the lateral force, see Figs. 7 and 17 of Kasprzak, Lewis, Milliken. Inflation Pressure Effects in the Nondimensional Tire Model, SAE Transactions, 2006.

Thanks, I will take a look. Typical data I've seen shows what I said but I suppose there's always some exceptions. Does it change slope after some amount of FY or something?

Kingkoenig · Feb 9, 2022

Peter Kerényi said:
Anybody else having frequent ACC crashes since the 1.8 update? Nothing before that...

I had a crash last Monday but it was fixed when I checked the files on my HD. I had to re-download a couple of small files and now the game runs fine.

maranello78 · Feb 9, 2022

eg01st said:
COTA and GT2 when?

That´s interesting, but i not seen GT2, instead i have seen Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo, Porsche 993 Cup 2021, Bmw CS and Huracan ST evo, just google it "assetto competizione keynote" and search images

Kingkoenig · Feb 9, 2022

I have a weird bug since 1.8: the upper part of the timing on the left side of the screen is hidden. (Unless it is some HUD option that I don't understand.)

Kingkoenig · Feb 9, 2022

maranello78 said:
That´s interesting, but i not seen GT2, instead i have seen Ferrari 488 Challenge Evo, Porsche 993 Cup 2021, Bmw CS and Huracan ST evo, just google it "assetto competizione keynote" and search images

I'm not expecting GT2 cars in the game, but a timeline for COTA (and other USA tracks) would be nice.

MadDriver11 · Feb 9, 2022

Kyuubeey said:
Thanks, I will take a look. Typical data I've seen shows what I said but I suppose there's always some exceptions. Does it change slope after some amount of FY or something?

It will very likely depend on the tire construction and the working point in terms of vertical loading and pressures.
It is obviously a trade off: working on the very bottom of the pressure range will make the tire very unsupported and and reduce the stiffness. Increasing the pressure over the optimal shape values will "balloon" the tire and by reducing grip it will also reduce the slope at which the grip is called upon.

Kyuubeey · Feb 9, 2022

MadDriver11 said:
It will very likely depend on the tire construction and the working point in terms of vertical loading and pressures.
It is obviously a trade off: working on the very bottom of the pressure range will make the tire very unsupported and and reduce the stiffness. Increasing the pressure over the optimal shape values will "balloon" the tire and by reducing grip it will also reduce the slop at which the grip is called upon.

Well this stuff isn't linear that's for sure. Like I said before in a practical real-world scenario much of it depends what camber angle the tire is at. How exactly I'll get back to you once I find enough data, which might be never.

Assetto Corsa Competizione Version 1.8.11 Released to Steam

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