Motorcycle Gaming Hardware is Coming?!

Looks like smoke and mirrors-type vaporware.

Gregz0r said:

that doesn't look like VR footage to me!

Click to expand...

Thats the flatscreen recording as trying to get in headset view kills the FPS to be unrideable. I did it once but forgot the settings to do it DOH....

Here is a test I managed using a desktop Hs3 system......It is immersive VR only but is so much better than flatscreen but takes time to get used to as seen in video lol.

Bram Hengeveld said:

I know but this article is about the emoto invented by Randall.

Click to expand...

Oh I so love that statement "Invented by Randall".............are you sure about that?

Yes this thread is about the emoto, but it is also about how we can control bikes in sims as it all belongs to the base subject.

I have been posting here to support Randall at the start and also try to explain the difficulties in making a controller work for bikes. Others have been discussing the emoto and controller function.

Nobody has hijacked the thread, we are all just dicussing it and theories!!!

Hey Gents and Ladies
Here is a video in VR motocross_MX Bikes by Piboso
Sorry I did not post yesterday as I mentioned but it was way too hot to do a video here in the garage in the south of Florida.

I will leave this here.

Next videos will be in this order:
GP Bikes PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
F1 2022 or Asseto Corsa PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
GT7 PS5 VR2 Gyro gamepad controller
Pavlov PS5 VR2 Sense controllers double grip stock and single grip stock
Contractors PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
Microsoft Flight Simulator Meta Quest2 touch controllers
emoto experience standalone Meta Quest2
Full breakdown of the emotostick

I think by the time I complete these videos I will be not only better at making them, more importantly, you will see the versatility of the patent pending emotostick™ as it relates to an entry level kit for VR devices that is and will be a necessity for VR gamers.
Remember this stick is slated to release for around $100.00USD

Thanks again to RD for allowing this thread to exist and to you for taking your time to check in.
This video is unlisted so you see it because you are here
Go easy on me.

Here is the complete configurations. It is one stick that configures to what you see here.

Here is a video emotostick™ in VR GP Bikes by Piboso
PCVR, Meta Quest 2 headset and controllers

doubledragoncc said:

It is impossible to replicate real bar movement and it work in sims as it would be far too sensitive and you would crash all the time,

Click to expand...

Respectfully, if the controller doesn't allow countersteer and can only lean, then controlling slides on a bike is no longer physically possible. Unless the game/sim does the countersteering for you of course, but that is as much fun as letting the game/sim to automatically countersteer in car games/sims.

No countersteer = no slide control = no realistic on the edge bike control.
Just two quick examples:

Here is the emotostick™ in drive mode using GT7 PS5 VR2 and gyroscope steering. I have to admit, this is my first time playing the GT series and it's AWESOME! It was eye opening for me to use the gamepad in gyro mode with emotostick™ I really enjoyed it and I will continue to advance, with my goal being getting the Honda 60's F1 car. I obtained all of my licenses with only the Super License left to acquire.

This is also my first time making a YouTube short video, I know I have a long way to go but you have to start somewhere.

Please understand that the current iteration of emotostick™ is an entry level product to supply you with a variety of connectivity option in VR with hopes that you will have a better understanding when you are ready to step up to dedicated devices made by emoto™ or any other company.

Next video up will be Pavlov VR on the PS5 VR2. I want to thank RD again and I hope all have a safe and wonderful weekend.

Here is a better view of the emotostick™ in drive configuration. Still working on YouTube shorts. This is the same stick that you can configure for the motorcycle usage,

Not sure about this solution, Devs in hardware stuff need creating for bikes games …I build own solution :

I have a feeling nobody in here tried Piboso's direct steering with an FFB wheel. Why people are so against using a wheel and pedals for controlling a bike? It's not like there is a closer matched FFB-enabled controller out there anyway, and without FFB all of these are useless.
Sure, it's pretty much impossible to recreate the force feedback you're getting while riding a bike, feeling the bars are almost weld solid tight to the frame, but there is still some steering going on regardless. So, whether you like it or not, a rotating controller with force feedback is the closest you get to controlling a bike in real world. It even works intuitive enough: you feel you start falling in one direction, you turn the bars in that direction. Yes, if you set the steering exact 1:1 direct steering, it will be nearly impossible to save the thing, but that's why this method of controlling needs to be researched and improved further upon - with reasonable aids and steering decoupling where appropriate (especially at low speeds).

Commanding the bike lean angle with an axis should be considered obsolete by now. Especially since these days there are neural networks that could further enhance the layer between the axis and the virtual fork steering angle.

Jay Dee Hell said:

Not sure about this solution, Devs in hardware stuff need creating for bikes games …I build own solution :

Click to expand...

Do you have Direct lean in settings at 100% as it looks like you have it far lower for reaction of bike on screen to your bars?

doubledragoncc said:

Do you have Direct lean in settings at 100% as it looks like you have it far lower for reaction of bike on screen to your bars?

Click to expand...

Yes, you asked me in Piboso forums, again this video is the first test ride I made and on VR this latency was not really a problem sure the platform made right balance cose the physics moves feels synchro
I was looking front of me and many enjoyed the ffb wobbling after raidillon in spa and using clutch with each gear shift up/down left foot right foot braking rear wheel was for me a great immersion experience I had this pedals set and steerwheel I didn't use
I also needed to enforce steer bar with a stabilizer because the platform pushing me with front brake (rear engines push up, and front engines pull down) vice versa in wheeling I am 93 kg and the central plate of steerbar is aluminium 4 mm ^^
Now I am to work other(s) project(s) and enjoying my simulator rig with other's SIM games, maybe once I post more videos ....
i only post here about steerbar with VR
if someone have any question about H3 H6 DOF reality rig axis settings (not SFU gear box) just ask ... and do not confuse immersion / simulation you can simulate a move not a peripheric a platform is the best way to be in full immersion even more with VR set "trying is the best way to find out" i many times hear playseat called simulator, but it's only a static seat with a steerwheel / bar
Best regards,

TzZyO said:

I have a feeling nobody in here tried Piboso's direct steering with an FFB wheel. Why people are so against using a wheel and pedals for controlling a bike? It's not like there is a closer matched FFB-enabled controller out there anyway, and without FFB all of these are useless.
Sure, it's pretty much impossible to recreate the force feedback you're getting while riding a bike, feeling the bars are almost weld solid tight to the frame, but there is still some steering going on regardless. So, whether you like it or not, a rotating controller with force feedback is the closest you get to controlling a bike in real world. It even works intuitive enough: you feel you start falling in one direction, you turn the bars in that direction. Yes, if you set the steering exact 1:1 direct steering, it will be nearly impossible to save the thing, but that's why this method of controlling needs to be researched and improved further upon - with reasonable aids and steering decoupling where appropriate (especially at low speeds).

Commanding the bike lean angle with an axis should be considered obsolete by now. Especially since these days there are neural networks that could further enhance the layer between the axis and the virtual fork steering angle.

Click to expand...

I understand what you mean and myself, I used a force feedback steering wheel for years with Piboso games the only problem is that I wanted the following axis :
1 : accelerator
2 : front brake
3 : rear brake
4 : clutch
5 : direction axis
Too many axes for a steering wheel which has 3 axes on the pedals and a steering axis and some people need maximum approach as using the VR and immersion platforms
As for leans and counterbalancing, burn shows and racing, are not the same....
In the race, we must follow the curve, we look inside the curve flush with the speed breakers and the head inside the curve, we take out the knee to have the maximum point of tolerance from where the reinforcements in the suits (no counterbalancing but follow the lean in this case)
I'm lucky to have an immersive H6 rig that takes care of leaning and traction loss with careful tuning (SimRacingStudio 2.0 software) and as in real life, I'm riding a motorcycle with forward controls (custom cruise bikes), my position is good on my simulator and I have to admit that at high speed 343 km/h top speed ever on the straight after the raidillon on spa (in game), I also tend to get my knee out and counterbalancing my body while platform managed leans after a few warm-up laps
On the other hand, those who have a static frame cannot feel what one feels with a motion frame (motion platform close to reality) there are more and more using in many real life practising ....
Don't ask to F1 and Flight pilots practice without motion platforms (a certain no sense you understand once you get a platform) even a real bike frame can be nice to show but if static still miss something "nice for eyes less for practice"
Same as racing with auto clutch is no sense and is why I build my own system
As for my handlebar, I made it, because I didn't like the "Rally" add-on steering wheel Thrustmaster and the stock pedals, I have a TS-XW base and a little disassembly work on the steering wheel body and used the part with the buttons add an aluminium plate and the bars and handle cables sheaths I have 7 axes ready to use 2 x 3 pedals and direction axe
Thanks to X360 Control Emulator Dev's which allows me to assign my axes as left foot shift up/down buttons...
I hope this is enough explanation to avoid judging !
The purpose of play SIM games is to have fun own way and no argues
Have fun ....
Best Regards

rocket ran said:

Hey Gents and Ladies
Here is a video in VR motocross_MX Bikes by Piboso
Sorry I did not post yesterday as I mentioned but it was way too hot to do a video here in the garage in the south of Florida.

I will leave this here.

Next videos will be in this order:
GP Bikes PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
F1 2022 or Asseto Corsa PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
GT7 PS5 VR2 Gyro gamepad controller
Pavlov PS5 VR2 Sense controllers double grip stock and single grip stock
Contractors PCVR Meta Quest2 touch controllers
Microsoft Flight Simulator Meta Quest2 touch controllers
emoto experience standalone Meta Quest2
Full breakdown of the emotostick

I think by the time I complete these videos I will be not only better at making them, more importantly, you will see the versatility of the patent pending emotostick™ as it relates to an entry level kit for VR devices that is and will be a necessity for VR gamers.
Remember this stick is slated to release for around $100.00USD

Thanks again to RD for allowing this thread to exist and to you for taking your time to check in.
This video is unlisted so you see it because you are here
Go easy on me.

Click to expand...

Hey Ran!

Surprised to see you turn up here after a year of ghosting the emoto development team. Glad to see you're alive and looking well though.

TzZyO said:

I have a feeling nobody in here tried Piboso's direct steering with an FFB wheel. Why people are so against using a wheel and pedals for controlling a bike? It's not like there is a closer matched FFB-enabled controller out there anyway, and without FFB all of these are useless.
Sure, it's pretty much impossible to recreate the force feedback you're getting while riding a bike, feeling the bars are almost weld solid tight to the frame, but there is still some steering going on regardless. So, whether you like it or not, a rotating controller with force feedback is the closest you get to controlling a bike in real world. It even works intuitive enough: you feel you start falling in one direction, you turn the bars in that direction. Yes, if you set the steering exact 1:1 direct steering, it will be nearly impossible to save the thing, but that's why this method of controlling needs to be researched and improved further upon - with reasonable aids and steering decoupling where appropriate (especially at low speeds).

Commanding the bike lean angle with an axis should be considered obsolete by now. Especially since these days there are neural networks that could further enhance the layer between the axis and the virtual fork steering angle.

Click to expand...

I have done a lot of tests and riding with this. It has not worked very well after beta19b though, hopefully there will be a fix soon. It has its challenges using the same axis as both feedback output and rider input, the filtering is hard to get right since not all hardware is the same.
I am working on separating the rider input from the normal ffb axis. The hardware is there, but I have still to try it with the directsteer modes.

You can't really say that it's obsolete steering with lean. It's just a more arcade way of doing it. From testing all kinds of controller setups for bikes on lots of different people I can say that not many understand and use countersteering. The lean input that the DD's HS system uses is the most intuitive for most level riders. It needs to be fun and rideable in order for people to use it.
This emotostick is not simulation, but it does the job of giving a casual gamer a way to control bikes.

Jay Dee Hell said:

I understand what you mean and myself, I used a force feedback steering wheel for years with Piboso games the only problem is that I wanted the following axis :
1 : accelerator
2 : front brake
3 : rear brake
4 : clutch
5 : direction axis
Too many axes for a steering wheel which has 3 axes on the pedals and a steering axis and some people need maximum approach as using the VR and immersion platforms
As for leans and counterbalancing, burn shows and racing, are not the same....
In the race, we must follow the curve, we look inside the curve flush with the speed breakers and the head inside the curve, we take out the knee to have the maximum point of tolerance from where the reinforcements in the suits (no counterbalancing but follow the lean in this case)
I'm lucky to have an immersive H6 rig that takes care of leaning and traction loss with careful tuning (SimRacingStudio 2.0 software) and as in real life, I'm riding a motorcycle with forward controls (custom cruise bikes), my position is good on my simulator and I have to admit that at high speed 343 km/h top speed ever on the straight after the raidillon on spa (in game), I also tend to get my knee out and counterbalancing my body while platform managed leans after a few warm-up laps
On the other hand, those who have a static frame cannot feel what one feels with a motion frame (motion platform close to reality) there are more and more using in many real life practising ....
Don't ask to F1 and Flight pilots practice without motion platforms (a certain no sense you understand once you get a platform) even a real bike frame can be nice to show but if static still miss something "nice for eyes less for practice"
Same as racing with auto clutch is no sense and is why I build my own system
As for my handlebar, I made it, because I didn't like the "Rally" add-on steering wheel Thrustmaster and the stock pedals, I have a TS-XW base and a little disassembly work on the steering wheel body and used the part with the buttons add an aluminium plate and the bars and handle cables sheaths I have 7 axes ready to use 2 x 3 pedals and direction axe
Thanks to X360 Control Emulator Dev's which allows me to assign my axes as left foot shift up/down buttons...
I hope this is enough explanation to avoid judging !
The purpose of play SIM games is to have fun own way and no argues
Have fun ....
Best Regards

Click to expand...

Yes, there is the lack of axes, but you can more or less set up the "brake balance" as you need it and in an even more flexible manner than it would be possible in a car sim. Car guys don't even have the luxury of split braking to begin with and still manage to race.
Between realistic steering and having separate brakes, in my opinion the former is much more important. That's not to mention you could theoretically use a separate controller (like a "hydraulic" handbrake one) for the rear brake.

For the rest of your post, I'm not quite sure what you meant, sorry. Also, have you tried direct steering? Not "direct lean", but the experimental option that can only be enabled in the configuration files.

Chris Beeves said:

I have done a lot of tests and riding with this. It has not worked very well after beta19b though, hopefully there will be a fix soon. It has its challenges using the same axis as both feedback output and rider input, the filtering is hard to get right since not all hardware is the same.
I am working on separating the rider input from the normal ffb axis. The hardware is there, but I have still to try it with the directsteer modes.

You can't really say that it's obsolete steering with lean. It's just a more arcade way of doing it. From testing all kinds of controller setups for bikes on lots of different people I can say that not many understand and use countersteering. The lean input that the DD's HS system uses is the most intuitive for most level riders. It needs to be fun and rideable in order for people to use it.
This emotostick is not simulation, but it does the job of giving a casual gamer a way to control bikes.

Click to expand...

You also noticed that Piboso ruined it in the later updates? I too hope that he'll do something about his "new FFB" - it has rendered GPB practically unusable to me.

As for separating FFB in the steering axis, why would you need that? I guess because of the old FFB being pretty violent at times and the steering axis needing utmost precision being negatively affected by all those FFB spikes? I guess that if they could be filtered out, there would not be any need for the separation.

I seriously fail to understand how any single person who had ever successfully gotten on two wheels could not understand countersteering or the basics of riding a single track vehicle. Even driving a high CoG car / truck incorporates elements from this. You steer outside and begin to fall inside, then you steer inside, stop the fall from progressing any further and maintain the balance between falling inside and straightening up. Once you are done going around the corner, you steer inside more, thus making the bike go vertical again. It's very much natural to anyone who ever tried to balance a stick on a palm while making it turn left or right.

The typical arcade controls are basically doing all the steering for the player instead. And one of the major downsides to that is its inability to predict your next input, so it lags noticeably behind it.

I believe direct steering does not need to be of the most hardcore implementations. It can also be pretty arcade - doing most of the work of balancing out minor disturbances. It would still make you feel more immersed than when you are simply telling the virtual rider how much lean you need next.

And really, nothing dictates us not to have both and choose the method we like. The only problem with direct steering is that barely anyone explored this path and those who did got too intimidated to soon, even though properly setting up the virtual rider to handle command lean controls is no easy feat either. As far as I know, many people complain about Piboso's virtual rider to this day. Maybe about time to ditch it altogether and try to improve the more "direct" approach?

TzZyO said:

I seriously fail to understand how any single person who had ever successfully gotten on two wheels could not understand countersteering or the basics of riding a single track vehicle. Even driving a high CoG car / truck incorporates elements from this. You steer outside and begin to fall inside, then you steer inside, stop the fall from progressing any further and maintain the balance between falling inside and straightening up. Once you are done going around the corner, you steer inside more, thus making the bike go vertical again. It's very much natural to anyone who ever tried to balance a stick on a palm while making it turn left or right.

Click to expand...

This is what I believed too. Driving a bike is physics. If you replicate the physics, a driver that can drive a bike will be able to drive the simulator.
However, from testing with both professional racers, beginners, experienced road riders (old farts like my dad who has been riding forever), track day instructors and even police motorcyclist I can say that it is not the case. It was most apparent with the beginners and experienced road riders. The other categories have practised active countersteering and adapted it to the simulator quite easily.

TzZyO said:

The typical arcade controls are basically doing all the steering for the player instead. And one of the major downsides to that is its inability to predict your next input, so it lags noticeably behind it.

Click to expand...

I don't experience noticeable lag with direct lean at 100%, depends a bit on what bike you are on though I guess. I get on quite well with the arcade type controls too even if I prefer the simulation steering.

TzZyO said:

You also noticed that Piboso ruined it in the later updates? I too hope that he'll do something about his "new FFB" - it has rendered GPB practically unusable to me.

Click to expand...

I'm partly to blame for it. I successfully convinced him to try and sort the violent oscillations out. Instead it was like it went a little limp. Impossible to drive with, it's like your arms are asleep.

TzZyO said:

I believe direct steering does not need to be of the most hardcore implementations. It can also be pretty arcade - doing most of the work of balancing out minor disturbances. It would still make you feel more immersed than when you are simply telling the virtual rider how much lean you need next.

Click to expand...

That sounds like what I'm currently working on. Countersteering while keeping the aid functions and ffb. I'll try to get a video up as soon as possible.

Great to see you show up for the thread Chris..........just starting on the motion electronics and lost already lol..............Hope we get to chat soon

Oh and loved your intro to the thread..............

Piboso is back but seems to be MXB comes first as eva!!! Hope GPBikes gets updated soon.