AI physics are rubbish

[haol_l]

May be too early to judge ,but so far the AI physics are too arcade feel. Boring.
You continuous bump , push or drive into the side of AI cars and they keep driving as if nothing happened.

 

[David Wright]

I suspect there is just trolling going on here but if anyone is actually interested in the truth

RD: While we are on the engine topic and relationship with Slightly Mad Studios, how does that work in this deal? Do SMS have any involvement in this project?

RS: SMS supply us the engine with source code, a good level of tech support and some of their assets in exchange for participation on AMS2 sales, but we retain total design and development control of it. It is again to their credit there hasn´t been so far one thing they´ve asked us not to do, nor one thing we asked from them they´ve said no to.

source

Automobilista 2: The Big Interview - Part 1

Welcome to the first of our two-part interview with Reiza Studios discussing the newly announced Automobilista 2. We've recently had the opportunity to speak with the man behind the magic, @Renato Simioni, and discuss in-depth the very recently announced Automobilista 2 - set to release this...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[Ghoults]

They are not given engine code to modify to their own pleasure, just rights to use it for this title, so it is the same situation as UE4 with Kunos. Only Kunos plugged in some parts of their own, including physics and AI. Reiza is only injecting modified FFB.

You are not just wrong about ams2/madness code as stated earlier but also about ue4. If kunos doesn't have ue4 source code they have made a pretty big mistake:

Downloading Unreal Engine Source Code | Unreal Engine 5.4 Documentation | Epic Developer Community

Steps for connecting to the source code repository and downloading the latest build of Unreal Engine.

docs.unrealengine.com

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Well, point A shows that they have low level access to the code and point D clearly states that "You cannot gauge the results of our physics and FFB on the Madness engine by other sims running the Madness engine, just as you couldn´t gauge the physics and FFB of AMS1 by other games running the pMotor physics." so it seems to be more than "just injecting their own FFB". Because it isn't. If you drove it, you would know this.

Post from @alexSchmurtz clarified some things, thanks.
Still trying to understand on which terms the engine, the intellectual property of SMS and now Codemaster was handed over to Reiza.
Is it the same kind of deal as with Automobilista and old ISI engine? My impressions based on earlier Renato's interview it was not, but again they never mentioned modified FFB code before either.

I suspect there is just trolling going on here but if anyone is actually interested in the truth

RD: While we are on the engine topic and relationship with Slightly Mad Studios, how does that work in this deal? Do SMS have any involvement in this project?

RS: SMS supply us the engine with source code, a good level of tech support and some of their assets in exchange for participation on AMS2 sales, but we retain total design and development control of it. It is again to their credit there hasn´t been so far one thing they´ve asked us not to do, nor one thing we asked from them they´ve said no to.

source

Automobilista 2: The Big Interview - Part 1

Welcome to the first of our two-part interview with Reiza Studios discussing the newly announced Automobilista 2. We've recently had the opportunity to speak with the man behind the magic, @Renato Simioni, and discuss in-depth the very recently announced Automobilista 2 - set to release this...

www.racedepartment.com

Thanks David for repost. Yes, you need to read the answer carefully. I actually thought that "retain total design and development control of it" was in reference to the engine, when in fact it was the title itself, and seems like engine code changes are still at discretion of SMS. Which makes total sense.
That clears things up for me. Not sure about others.

Thanks again.

You are not just wrong about ams2/madness code as stated earlier but also about ue4. If kunos doesn't have ue4 source code they have made a pretty big mistake:

Downloading Unreal Engine Source Code | Unreal Engine 5.4 Documentation | Epic Developer Community

Steps for connecting to the source code repository and downloading the latest build of Unreal Engine.

docs.unrealengine.com

Access to the source code does not make you at right to modify it unless it is open-source license, which UE4 is not.

 

[Emerson Meyer]

They are not given engine code to modify to their own pleasure, just rights to use it for this title, so it is the same situation as UE4 with Kunos. Only Kunos plugged in some parts of their own, including physics and AI. Reiza is only injecting modified FFB.

Oh boy... "EpicFacePalm"

 

[billyblaze13]

Post from @alexSchmurtz clarified some things, thanks.
Still trying to understand on which terms the engine, the intellectual property of SMS and now Codemaster was handed over to Reiza.
Is it the same kind of deal as with Automobilista and old ISI engine? My impressions based on earlier Renato's interview it was not, but again they never mentioned modified FFB code before either.

Yes, you need to read the answer carefully.

the terms by which SMS handed over the engine are in the answer if you indeed read it carefully :
"in exchange for participation on AMS2 sales"...m'kay?

 

[David Wright]

Thanks David for repost. Yes, you need to read the answer carefully. I actually thought that "retain total design and development control of it" was in reference to the engine, when in fact it was the title itself, and seems like engine code changes are still at discretion of SMS. Which makes total sense.
That clears things up for me. Not sure about others.

Thanks again.

I'm sorry but you seem to be deliberately obtuse. How can you have total design and development control if you have to ask permission to make changes to the source code?

The Reiza version of the Madness engine is a separate branch. It is very similar to the licensing of the ISI source code for AMS1. Reiza will not automatically get improvements SMS make going forwards nor will SMS automatically get improvements Reiza make. There is no reason for SMS to try to control changes Reiza make to the source code - they do not affect SMS.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I'm sorry but you seem to be deliberately obtuse. How can you have total design and development control if you have to ask permission to make changes to the source code?

The Reiza version of the Madness engine is a separate branch. It is very similar to the licensing of the ISI source code. Reiza will not automatically get improvements SMS make going forwards nor will SMS automatically get improvements Reiza make. There is no reason for SMS to try to control changes Reiza make to the source code - they do not affect SMS.

I have asked if it's the same model as ISI engine and Automobilista here.
So you can confirm that?
Questioning as the wording of terms of ISI and Madness engine use were quite different in the announcements of both titles. Being in software business for so many years you start paying attention to the boring details like copyrights, intellectual property, licencing, terms of use, EULA, etc, I understand that for most people access to the code means you can do anything, but most of the time this is not the reality.
And yes, one can have total design and development control of the own app without touching the engine or even having access to the source code.

 

[Renato Simioni]

We have full access to the Madness source code and we´re free to change it as we please, which is indeed a pretty remarkable move from SMS - I think they deserve more credit than they get (specially from those are already able to enjoy AMS2).

On the topic of AI - it´s inevitable that people judge what they see, and what there is to be seen for now is some fairly rough AI - that´s the trade-off from public betatesting, it can be hard to convey to users how much of a grasp we have on the issues still present.

For what is worth we knew what the issues were, we had a good idea on how to fix them and we´re in process of fixing them. Beta3 wil again bring some major improvements to the AI - the highlight being a tweak in the code that fixes their tendency to go off-roading when crowded

This is just week 3 of AMS2 Beta - things will continue to evolve quickly all the way to release

 

[brainner]

thanx renato to clear that out. Fake news are dangerous.

 

[graphicaluserinterface]

With a game release just around the corner and all of the placeholders and reported issues, plus footage floating over all aspects, this looks like a big hopeful PR-push by the big boss to surge pass any criticism.

 

[Miguel Batista]

With a game release just around the corner and all of the placeholders and reported issues, plus footage floating over all aspects, this looks like a big hopeful PR-push by the big boss to surge pass any criticism.

You created an account to just come and say that?

 

[Renato Simioni]

With a game release just around the corner and all of the placeholders and reported issues, plus footage floating over all aspects, this looks like a big hopeful PR-push by the big boss to surge pass any criticism.

The footage and commentary seems actually pretty positive already so my hopes are well satisfied at this stage.

Let´s see where we are in 3 weeks´ time - I´ll be happy to let the game do the talking then

 

[billyblaze13]

With a game release just around the corner and all of the placeholders and reported issues, plus footage floating over all aspects, this looks like a big hopeful PR-push by the big boss to surge pass any criticism.

bitter much?

 

[pitkin]

graphicaluserinterface said:
With a game release just around the corner and all of the placeholders and reported issues, plus footage floating over all aspects, this looks like a big hopeful PR-push by the big boss to surge pass any criticism.

Did you play AMS 1? Did you see the massive evolution from initial release all the way to the final patch? That should tell anyone everything they need to know about Reiza. Their ability and dedication to make and support a quality title is there to be seen.

 

[maelstrom]

Did you play AMS 1? Did you see the massive evolution from initial release all the way to the final patch?

But does that make the upcoming release really and early-access sim?

 

[pitkin]

But does that make the upcoming release really and early-access sim?

I guess that depends on if you're happy with the initial release.

I was happy with AMS1 from day one. I wasn't expecting it to turn out with the big improvements to the old rFactor sim that it eventually had. Every update felt like it was something to look forward to rather than an 'about time they fixed that bug' sort of thing.

I'll have to wait and see what state AMS 2 is in when it's officially released. If it works well, then I'll consider owning it another experience similar to AMS 1. If it's a mess, I'll call it early access, but will still be pretty confident that it will come good in the end.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

I've noticed with AI, people have extreme differences of opinions across the various sims and simcades. For instance, I don't drive Rcaeroom much anymore because the AI are punting machines. Others rave about them. When it comes to AMS2, anyone that makes a purchase decision on a "Beta" rant deserves what they get or don't get. It is in Beta. It will get better.

 

[UMC 22]

When it comes to AMS2, anyone that makes a purchase decision on a "Beta" rant deserves what they get or don't get. It is in Beta. It will get better.

Unfortunately, no matter how many times you point this out, it will always fall on deaf ears. Just look at Steam's Early Access programme. Half the reviews are people screaming about X being broken, Y being unfinished, Z being bugged. Yes, that would be because the game is alpha/beta, genius. You even get people screaming about mods getting broken by patches... the game is in development for crying out loud! Are they not supposed to release patches?

Personally, I do wonder if it's really worth developers releasing unfinished products to the general public. I guess it saves money on testing etc, but it must also result in lost sales due to people buying into the bad reviews posted by those who expect a polished product from a beta.

 

[SwaggerJacker]

This will be unpopular, but here goes......
The whole Beta thing gets crazy because of a generational disconnect. Today's world is one of instant gratification. People will refuse to look at Reiza's past games and DLC. that's unfortunate because your history should always precede you. I absolutely hate PC2. It is totally undriveable hot mess for me. Again, for me. I loved PC1. I was afraid AMS2's physics would mimic PC2. I've read and watched the reviews, and have concluded that it does not. That was my biggest concern.

I've read that the AI is improving in the beta as well. Some of the people blasting the Beta were asked to be subjective, as it is a.....wait for it.....BETA! Will it be ready for primetime at launch? I have my doubts. I'm just deciding whether to wait, or grow with the product. Their history says I should grow with the game. Mayhap I will do just that.

 

[maelstrom]

I think the worry here is that (unless things slip) we're only 2 weeks from the full release. It was always looking like a brave move to allow just a month for beta testing. I'm really hoping that the sim lives up to the hype but there seems to be a lot to do in a very short time.