PC1 Banned for no reason!

[Mapu]

In reply to WMD_Micas last message:

Painting everything in black and white, right? Shortsighted, egocentric and abusive, what a dangerous mixture!

It's only getting worse.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

(hundreds of thousands of dollars) of money from the game for one simple reason. To annoy you as you annoy us.
That's pretty much all there is to it.

So everyone's going to make a ton of money yet our insignificant opinions are still annoying.....how's that work in your mind?
SMS cocking up Shift2 did more to harm their reputation than anything I've ever said....I mean S2 was a bad game all over the place, yet it could've been one of the best racing games ever made.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

83 - 100 ms is the absolute lowest possible lag on consoles at 30 fps. That's not far from some games at 60 fps. But of course it's not so easy when you need collision detection, physics and an advanced renderer.

This is part of the problem IMO, the GFX/physx engine "might" be too demanding for console HW to run properly, but because GFX are deemed a major selling point to console gamers, they might choose to sacrifice some fidelity for wow factor=possible input lag.

ISRacing mentioned that their Ferrari game had input lag, and I've never experienced this type of lag on any other game, I did get some stutter on GTR evo when I had XP and 4gig of ram limited to 3.3g thx to 32b OS, but on W7 64 bit, smooth sailing.

 

[RedMetal]

... and pointing out that I'm going to make scads (hundreds of thousands of dollars) of money from the game for one simple reason. To annoy you as you annoy us.

That's pretty much all there is to it.

hmmm but it doesn't annoy me. I find it amusing thats all.
I also never said anything about pCar so I don't see how my opinion about it could annoy you!

Anyway, it was just a little observation, nothing more.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Whatever he is, he's an investor so they can't get rid of him. He's the 2nd biggest investor, so if he's a nuisance they have to deal with him.

If you invest in your company boss may react differently to you as well

It does also amuse me that you think anyone at SMS thinks I'm a "nuisance". When Ian announced the project on NG in July 2011, the first thing I did was say "I'm in for all it's worth", and when WMD opened, the first thing I did - even before opening my account at WMD was wire them a truckload of money. I hadn't seen a build. I hadn't seen a forum post. I had only read what Ian's plan was for the project, and knew it was going to turn out exactly as it has.. one of the coolest gaming and financial experiences of my life. I run other businesses and this isn't going to affect my lifestyle, but it's more fun then any other business situation I'm involved in.

I didn't just type a mean game. I put up, and it's been honey and roses ever since. Well.. there was that one time that Andy thought I was being in bad taste when I suggested that track marshals should be subject to bodily injury by race car when running out onto the track.. but we got over it. (note, I still think you should be able to run the marshals over, we are aiming for "realism" after all).

You guys are incredibly narcissistic. You actually think Ian or Andy cares about your gripes, or that they have much of an interest of what I'm writing here other than the occasional chuckle? You wrap yourselves up as representatives of "the community" and you actually think you're going to have some influence on the success or failure of the project? That really is the most comical thing. Don't buy it! Convince your friends not to buy it! But.. you know.. you will and they will.

I'm not even asking you to stop. Seriously, it's a near-daily source of entertainment.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

. You actually think Ian or Andy cares about your gripes,

Who knows, who cares, I just want the freedom to discuss this game, both the positive and the negative.

 

[Rob Every]

To be perfectly honest, this forum hardly points to a core market, it is a minority market.

if a guy wants to come and here and try and wind people up, let him.

I play the game periodically as a new user, and I still think the same as I did, it looks lovely but plays bad, no amount of work done by the people there has really changed that initial feel you get from a game as to whether you will like it or not.I am not just saying that, and I never did. Which makes me believe that will not be a well received release on PC until it is hacked to death and decent stuff put in there to mask the issues.

AS said before, on console who cares, the best feeling and fun games to me have often been the Dirt games, they are relatively intuitive, but if you know a bit about how sims work you can get to a higher level, on Dirt 2 I used to win most races I entered on any class as I knoew the cars,knew their limits and you couldnt really cheat that easy.

One of the better simmish games was F1 world championship, online it was a blast with ghost cars, I had many a superb race with guys in that game. The sim was progressive, forced you to learn and work out setups and you couldnt simply win in a Minardi as you could in other simcade F1 titles. It rewarded time and practice.

The Shift series have their place, they are bridging the market between GTA type cruise games and sims, and fair enough. the first was fun, I played it untilI realised it was bugged, but the second one was awful for me, traded it after a week of toiling with bad physics and pretty but crashy graphics.

My beef all along with this was not that fact, it was the pained forcing that this was a sim, I over-reacted when it became clear that strong opinion (not swearing or anything rude) was not welcome. This is fair enough. What is not fair enough is banning from other forums and general rubbish posted by people everywhere as I have found from playing other games recently. Nothing you can do about it so again fair enough.

I guess the main beef is the feeling about being sold down the river. You get told you have a say, that is clearly not true. You get told you are helping with the game, well yes in that you are paying to BETA test a console game on your PC. We are all passionate about our gaming, that is why we registered here. And maybe that passion goes too far, but that is what it is, passion for this tiny market, and we hate to see it (in my mind) abused.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

.at the moment pcars gives the child in me the best illusion..

Fine, although probably a little too much information, but you like it, it's perfect for you, however it's not for me, although it could become a very worthwhile simcade game, but it still needs more work, and they've got plenty of time....and tbh, I think this will be one of the best racing games ever made.

Atm, pcars has some of the best steering precision of any simcade game, so it's really down to working on the FFB and improving the driving model a bit, as some of the cars feel weird, and many of them feel way too gross and spongy thru bathurst 2nd sector for example.

 

[Mapu]

In reply to Micas_WMD last message:
Never am I going to touch a game from the makers of Need for Speed: Shift again. On that you can be sure.

I got charged a clearance price on the first Shift, not well spent but learned a lesson from it.

All I can see is the trend, a general trend in business these days, but that's a different story. In this very special genre I see a suboptimal game claiming to become a superior simulation while at the same time set standards get watered down and the developers are more or less engaged in window-dressing. Seriously, at this point I'm glad that we have more then one choice in the coming months, products which are even more professionally handled. But even if we hadn't any choices, you wouldn't see a single coin from me. Of that I was sure from the first minute.

Funny thing is, you, Micas_WMD, insult those people who should buy the product into which you, many others and Ian himself made an investment. How clever...

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Funny thing is, you, Micas_WMD, insult those people who should buy the product into which you, many others and Ian himself made an investment. How clever...

I hope it's just one long brainfade on his part, however it's probably the fact that they have no intention of trying to appeal to the hardcore sim market, and there's nothing wrong with that approach as both GT5/FM have proven, but it does constantly raise the question of it's sim status.

 

[Micas_WMD]

I play the game periodically as a new user, and I still think the same as I did, it looks lovely but plays bad, no amount of work done by the people there has really changed that initial feel you get from a game as to whether you will like it or not.I am not just saying that, and I never did. Which makes me believe that will not be a well received release on PC until it is hacked to death and decent stuff put in there to mask the issues.

Then you have access to WMD. Have you seen the very recent work done on the tick rate - the feedback SMS is gathering from members.. gauging it against the performance of their PC's? You would also be aware that AJ is in the process of coding the dynamic tyre model - which will change the way the FFB reacts. The game will be impervious to being "hacked to death" anyway.

This is why I'm trolling you guys.. that one paragraph sums it up perfectly. You made up your mind about the shipping product, and you're completely avoiding the very detailed and frequent updates on the progress of making pCARS perform in the best manner possible. It's all happening on WMD right this second, and Andy is chatting with the team members and getting feedback.. right now.. and it's nearly 10pm in London.

You've just stated that it's going to suck until people "hack it to death" and make it "decent". You are the type of person that is not welcome on WMD - and they will punt you off immediately if you spoke to them that way. It's rude, and it embaresses yourself by the complete ignorance of even understanding what the development process of a video game amounts to.

Maybe you can't be blamed for your ignorance because you've never been invited to participate in the development of a game like this before - but that's not a valid excuse. Neither is it an excuse to spread lies, innuendo, and general asshattery about a project you don't even understand.

That was the risk SMS took when they invited anyone in to help out. They certainly don't have to keep anyone like that around though.

I guess the main beef is the feeling about being sold down the river. You get told you have a say, that is clearly not true. You get told you are helping with the game, well yes in that you are paying to BETA test a console game on your PC. We are all passionate about our gaming, that is why we registered here. And maybe that passion goes too far, but that is what it is, passion for this tiny market, and we hate to see it (in my mind) abused.

You do get to have your say. Your problem is that you don't know how to say it like a normal human being, and then blame it on SMS or other forum moderators? Why is it that you think you have no say, where literally thousands other team members at WMD do? Could it be because they know how to express criticism and you have zero clue? Ya think?

Just your attitude reeks of a sense of entitlement, and your lying again. People aren't paying to beta test. Full member team members get the game for free on release. Team members and juniors get a discount equivalent to the price of their tool pack... meaning.. your a liar.. and I hate liars.

Senior members and above will actually EARN money in the project when it meets a very low "break even" point.

It's also not testing a "console game on your PC". The PC is the lead platform and it's being ported to console. Again, you're lying, and I hate liars, and I despise people that are trying to spread these malicious lies and innuendo about the game - and I'm not using hyperbole. You are not expressing your opinion. You are making up lies about pCARS and claiming it to be true. That's why you are confused about being banned or not allowed to voice and opinion. You honestly don't know the difference between a lie and an opinion.

Yours was the best post in this thread.. by far.. and exemplifies the battle we are fighting against the liars.

 

[Andy_J]

your a liar.. and I hate liars.

Well you admitted you are Trolling (against forum rules) and now you are getting personal with insults (also against forum rules). Perhaps this post of yours should be reported to Bram. You come here to cause trouble on behalf of SMS/WMD and for that you are truly making a fool of yourself. You think you are a big special man with permission from Bell to come here and stir. I really do feel for you. Very sad. You have completely ignored what Bram requested on the last page once again. If it is your intention to get the thread closed down, I hope he see's through your shoddy charade.

Like I said, poor advertisement for Pcars. Very poor.

And for the record, all members invited to participate and paid their fee have not in any way contributed to the development of the game. All they did was aid the investment for people like you and Bell. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. The game and it's very idea's were all pre-planned. It was never meant to be anything other than a cash cow, hence the priority on console simcade style's and the absolute promise that modding will not be allowed.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Funny thing is, you, Micas_WMD, insult those people who should buy the product into which you, many others and Ian himself made an investment. How clever...

No.. I'm actually hoping you don't buy it. I know you will, but I dearly hope not. The amount of money I would earn off of your purchase does not interest me in the least, nor would it interest Ian.

The truth is "those people" would probably add up to an extra $10 in my pocket if you all bought it. I don't need, nor want that money.

We do have one thing to look forward to though. The release. My bet is that the silence here will be deafening.

 

[Kazumi]

You are regularly insulting people and accuse people of lying.

It's not even worth arguing...

Which makes me believe that will not be a well received release on PC until it is hacked to death and decent stuff put in there to mask the issues.

If that improves it greatly for anyone I wonder what kind of people would be against that.

You actually think Ian or Andy cares about your gripes, or that they have much of an interest of what I'm writing here other than the occasional chuckle? You wrap yourselves up as representatives of "the community" and you actually think you're going to have some influence on the success or failure of the project? That really is the most comical thing. Don't buy it! Convince your friends not to buy it! But.. you know.. you will and they will.

I'm not even asking you to stop. Seriously, it's a near-daily source of entertainment.

I couldn't care less. But they should care what others think, of course, as they want to sell their game to a wide audience.

Again, I don't even want that kind of influence.

 

[Micas_WMD]

Well you admitted you are Trolling (against forum rules) and now you are getting personal with insults (also against forum rules). Perhaps this post of yours should be reported to Bram. You come here to cause trouble on behalf of SMS/WMD and for that you are truly making a fool of yourself. You think you are a big special man with permission from Bell to come here and stir. I really do feel for you. Very sad. You have completely ignored what Bram requested on the last page once again. If it is your intention to get the thread closed down, I hope he see's through your shoddy charade.

Like I said, poor advertisement for Pcars. Very poor.

I see.. so the expectation here is that you can lie about our product to your hearts content, and I'm not allowed to call them a liar?

Fine.. then I definitely deserve a ban. If you want to ban reality, then that is cool with me.

christ.. I never said I had permission from Ian Bell.. I said that Ian Bell doesn't care about you. I doubt he knows you exist. Make up any version of what I said that you want.. but if you want to continue to spread malicious lies and innuendo about our business, and the mods here want to ban me for protecting our IP, and our business interests.. then that's perfectly okay with me.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

... meaning.. your a liar.. and I hate liars..

But this is all fun and games for you isn't it, none of this/us matters, so I'm baffled by the strong emo content from your last post.

 

[Andy_J]

I see.. so the expectation here is that you can lie about our product to your hearts content, and I'm not allowed to call them a liar?

Fine.. then I definitely deserve a ban. If you want to ban reality, then that is cool with me.

This won't be the first Ban you have got or deserve. You have been banned on NG a few times for trolling. You are plainly breaking the forum rules getting personal and calling people liar's. It's just not on. Get a grip man. And stop trying to get this thread closed down.

ps, where have I lied about your product? I have expressed an opinion based on the current state of the software.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

and the mods here want to ban me for protecting our IP, and our business interests.. then that's perfectly okay with me.

At least you'll be banned on honorable grounds, LOL.

 

[Mapu]

Well I believe that GT5 and FM have a strong basis, being build up over years now. Not sure if these communities want, or even can be moved over to a new game that easily. The question is, to whom does SMS wish to appeal to if they don't want to get lost in another sub genre like "maybe-a-bit-arcade-to-keep-the-causal-gamer-in-and-also-simulator-to-an-extend-as-well-as-to-have-a-catchphrase-but-still-less-sophisticated-then-a-simulator-that-could-set-new-standards".

It's too muddled to be able to make any sense out of it. As long as they don't make their goal clear, and keep their phrasing ambiguous it will stay problematic, not to speak of them being able to gather a mainstay on the racing games market. At the moment it looks just like the ordinary racer you've played once and forgotten after 2 weeks.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

The question is, to whom does SMS wish to appeal to if they don't want to get lost in another sub genre like "maybe-a-bit-arcade-to-keep-the-causal-gamer-in-and-also-simulator-to-an-extend-as-well-as-to-have-a-catchphrase-but-still-less-sophisticated-then-a-simulator-that-could-set-new-standards".
.

I originally thought the whole point of crowd sourcing on this project was to bypass the evil EA and ensure a real sim was produced as the "crowd" would bear a heavy financial burden, lessening the risk to SMS, but if they're chasing 1m+ sales, I guess another question is, "will 1m+ people buy a real sim, and do they think SMS are the one's to deliver"......

If even the better sims sell less than 500k copies, will pcars sell 1m+ based on the GFX.....
Anyway, at least these cars aren't as bad as Shift1/2, so it has a chance of being a good racing game, but I'm gonna have to wait for the SMS NTM before I can possibly judge it a FVA/rf2 type sim.