Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[RCHeliguy]

The parts bolt together and the front button box feels very secure even with only one bolt in each section. I definitely need a lip of some kind on top just to finish the seam.

Below is just a partial print of the back frame with just enough to have the brace and connections.

I've already iterated on the design since the print this morning.
I think I can get all the controls I want on just the two boxes.

BTW I did order some dark pearl red and white PLA. The dark pearl red may make for nice accent pieces like the phone holder and HMD hangar below. The white is just in case I try 3D printing labels and use two color prints. It would give me an excuse to try out the .25mm nozzle.

I'm very curious if any of you have any comments, in terms of layout and design etc..

Had to get rid of the chamfered edges so I could work with the parts again.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My very first PETG print in Prusament Anthracite Gray. There was no experimentation, I just used the Prusament profile for PETG and the phone fits perfectly

There will be a small angled piece at the front that this will push into and then there are two 6mm bolt holes in the back.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

The parts bolt together and the front button box feels very secure even with only one bolt in each section. I definitely need a lip of some kind on top just to finish the seam.

Below is just a partial print of the back frame with just enough to have the brace and connections.

View attachment 422299

I've already iterated on the design since the print this morning.
I think I can get all the controls I want on just the two boxes.

BTW I did order some dark pearl red and white PLA. The dark pearl red may make for nice accent pieces like the phone holder and HMD hangar below. The white is just in case I try 3D printing labels and use two color prints. It would give me an excuse to try out the .25mm nozzle.

I'm very curious if any of you have any comments, in terms of layout and design etc..

Had to get rid of the chamfered edges so I could work with the parts again.
View attachment 422300

I hesitate to make too many comments. I'm only just finishingy first attempt at a VR button box. How close are the graphics to the actual switches, buttons, and knobs... In terms of size, etc?

You have a lot of the same little red buttons. If those are all the same, I'd worry about finding (or knowing you found) the right one mid race. I personally opted for raised and resessed buttons to be able to distinguish them blind. I also opted for a non-grid layout so the same button isn't on the same level twice...eithout a landmark to guide finger placement.

Similarly with the knobs... They all. Look to be the Same size. I have three different sized knobs. And didn't put the same size knobs near each other.

I'm not sure what the large black and small white shafts are? Encoders? Dual or single? With or without a push fn?

I also when with lots of multifunction switches. Dual rotary encoders, up/down momentary switches.... Once I get my hand on something... Get as much out of it as I can.

Just some thoughts from a guy who is an iteration behind you.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

I was looking to find out....but, don't see a post defining it. Which 3d printer did you get?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I was looking to find out....but, don't see a post defining it. Which 3d printer did you get?

I've both mentioned it and there are numerous pictures showing it. It's a Prusa i3 mk3s.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I hesitate to make too many comments. I'm only just finishingy first attempt at a VR button box. How close are the graphics to the actual switches, buttons, and knobs... In terms of size, etc?

You have a lot of the same little red buttons. If those are all the same, I'd worry about finding (or knowing you found) the right one mid race. I personally opted for raised and resessed buttons to be able to distinguish them blind. I also opted for a non-grid layout so the same button isn't on the same level twice...eithout a landmark to guide finger placement.

Similarly with the knobs... They all. Look to be the Same size. I have three different sized knobs. And didn't put the same size knobs near each other.

I'm not sure what the large black and small white shafts are? Encoders? Dual or single? With or without a push fn?

I also when with lots of multifunction switches. Dual rotary encoders, up/down momentary switches.... Once I get my hand on something... Get as much out of it as I can.

Just some thoughts from a guy who is an iteration behind you.

I asked for thoughts about this. Don't worry.

In my first VR button box design I decided that OVERSIZED was the way to handle VR and I also picked buttons that were different shapes.

The bottom left button plate below is especially large and spaced out. In practice it works OK, but wastes a lot of space. The joystick is for the seat, then there is an ignition switch, huge green start button, red recover/pit/exit button, and a silver HMD center button.

The top button plate has a joystick as well. The two buttons to the left are red (enter) , yellow (cancel), blue brake. The joystick is for arrow keys and the blue button is quit. The left two momentary switchs were for menu navigation. The bottom right button plate was a generic place holder and I never used it.

You can see pairs of buttons that are raised and flush so you can see I was thinking just like you about the tactile differences.

What I found in practice was that the position and groupings mattered more than anything else. For example when using the joystick for arrow keys, the enter and cancel buttons were in perfect position and so were the toggles for the menu. Once I had located the joystick everything else was immediately accessible. In the picture below notice the arrow pointing to the vertical wheel support. My hand would immediately use that as a reference point and rest on that while using the joystick.

What I never notice with my gloved hand are the buttons being raised or flush. I go for the position. Those little buttons that I have on the new design are small, raised well and have a GREAT tactile click when pressing them. With gloves on I've found that click to be very important.

The mushrooms are easy to find and have a long throw which works well. The On/Off switches are good for ignition, wipers, and lights. The small metal buttons have a decent click, the smallest button has a great click and the raised plastic button on the end is mush and gives no indication of engagement.

I've labeled the controls that I use the most. The arrow key navigation is only for Dirt Rally 2 and I will reuse those controls differently in iRacing.

I have a lot to think about in iRacing and haven't got the rest laid out. However I use my PSE wheel in iRacing and it has a number of buttons, two toggles and two rotaries. So I have my pit limiter, Flash, Radio and a few other things mapped there.

This is definitely a work in progress. On key thing I'm doing is using the edges of the box and taller controls to register position from. I may also add dividers between logical groups of controls.

When I'm first in the pit, I center my HMD, flip the ignition on and press the start button. So those controls are in order. The seat controls are grouped together. The arrow navigation controls are grouped together. I've got some lit buttons for controlling replay, but I'm not sure if I will use them or not.

I do want labels of some kind, but I want them to be easily changed.

 

[RCHeliguy]

My white and pearl red filament arrive on Monday. It's time to try out some two color prints. I just saw how incredibly easy it is to set this up in PrusaSlicer I'll see if I can get away with the stock print head and experiment with that, but I'm sure the .25mm head will be much better for this.

For the knobs, toggles and switches, it should be easy enough to just bolt the labels down behind the knobs and switches.
It may be possible with the joysticks. The buttons would require more dissassembly, but if I put a split in the label backings, it should work.

I'm also going to angle and submerge the fan knob and make something inside that holds the PWM board in place.

This is an ugly test of how I'm thinking I can do this with a ring around a switch with a label on it.
I'll find out more next week.

 

[RCHeliguy]

"Squirrel !"

Looks like I'm going to have a Black Friday change of priorities for the short term

To be fair some of my buttons and other hardware are still about 2 weeks out so I've got time that is definitely still on the way!

Just downloaded Star Wars: Squadrons

I've heard some great reviews about this game and as much as I LOVED Eve Valkyrie, this could be a lot of fun! So I'm going to see if I can get my flight controls mounted again without major surgery to my rig.

I just saw that the most recent version 3.0 has a fix that supports the Virpil throttle.

For some reason I just can't get into flight simulators, but space combat games seem to have a lot more pull for me. Sadly like Eve Valkyrie there is no telemetry for my NLRv3 or transducers.

Everyone has things that grab them.

 

[mechsicko]

Squadrons is fun af... you should see the TIE fighter yoke thing I'm making for it ..my rebel cockpit scene is already really dialed but I've been flirting with similar designs to the TIE yoke for like a bunch of years but finally have the perfect excuse to build it.

Like an airplane yoke it moves in roll and surge however in Squadrons the left/right grips of the yoke are x/y joysticks but they are slaved together. I'm past the kinematic mockup stage and have already cut some metal and am doing a lot of modeling.

x/y on mine are dual-opposing cams like Baur BRD or Virpil Warbird and the roll axis cam is based off Crosswind pedals. Ball bearings on all the pivots and heavy emphasis on functioning ergronomics. I'll have pics soon but couldn't help but bubble about it a bit here once I saw you mention it.

Follow this tuning guide to get the most out of whatever hardware you have it's really resource intensive so don't be afraid to turn down VR Shadows and VR Lighting to low/med


edit: spoiler tagg'd the link to be less of a page hog

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've played around with the training on both the imperial and empire side. The sounds are all very Star Wars Authentic. The "flight" characteristics are very much like Eve Valkyrie. I still need to finish mapping all the controls to my HOTAS, So far I've all the biggies mapped, but I can tell this will take a bit to get comfortable with. So far it looks pretty good in VR. I may stick with this for a little while.

I just put all the flight controls back where they were. I haven't made any of the mounting upgrades I had planned on. Until I get the button box finished I can't do what I wanted to do with the Throttle. The stick is already pretty well sorted, but i do want a better foot plate mount.

Finally had to put my rig away for the night, but I think I'll be at this in the AM.

 

[RCHeliguy]

It looks like two color printing will work pretty well

This is with the stock .4mm nozzle.

I will need to scale the print down a bit, but the concept works well. I'll also need to add a notch for the switches so the label can't spin.

What I've found is that sanding the letters didn't work well, but an X-acto knive to clean up the edges does work. Zoomed in like this imperfections show, but to the nake eye it looks very good. You can see where I squared off the edges at the botom of the I and N.

 

[Moonmachine]

You have such an amazing setup, every time i take a look something else jumps out. The Virpil kit is lovely, is the joystick arm on some sort of quick release?

 

[RCHeliguy]

You have such an amazing setup, every time i take a look something else jumps out. The Virpil kit is lovely, is the joystick arm on some sort of quick release?

Yes. I use two 8mm bicycle seat quick releases.

I have a VPC Constellation ALPHA-R back ordered. The Thrustmaster A-10 grip is metal, heavy and has very strong trigger springs. When I was playing Eve Valkyrie a lot I built up my finger muscles, but I understand that the VPC polycarbonate feels better in your hand and the controls have "game appropriate" resistance.

 

[Moonmachine]

Thats ingenious, the joystick arm slides on to the horizontal quick release and then locks into position with the vertical quick release?
I need to decide whether to go with the VKB or the Virpil, but this looks to be the perfect mounting solution.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Thats ingenious, the joystick arm slides on to the horizontal quick release and then locks into position with the vertical quick release?
I need to decide whether to go with the VKB or the Virpil, but this looks to be the perfect mounting solution.

It very much needs a vertical and horizonal corner brace, but more than one per axis makes little difference that I could tell and it is definitely easier to attach with only one per axis. With opposing corners, one corner needs to both slide in, tighten and then tighten the other side.

I can't help you with the VKB vs. Virpil comparison. I can see a very large difference in how the Virpil controls feel vs. the Thrustmaster controls. The Thrustmaster throttle felt cheap and had play in it and the stick base had very weak springs and plastic inside that actually broke on my when I was removing the extension pipe. The Virpil controls feel very smooth and tight. The adjustable springs on the stick base work very well. I expect that I'll be able to back them off just a bit after putting the lighter Constellation stick on. The internals of the stick base look very stout and are all metal.

 

[Atak_Kat]

View attachment 423509

Wow, that looks really good. I don't have time or space for more hobbies but these 3d printers seem to open a massive world of possibilities.

Have you considered using magnets to place the labels? Would allow interchangeability.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wow, that looks really good. I don't have time or space for more hobbies but these 3d printers seem to open a massive world of possibilities.

Have you considered using magnets to place the labels? Would allow interchangeability.

That is an Interesting idea! This is definitely worth exploring.

Below is a source for very small magnets that could work and if you had a standardized pattern for the magnets and they were basically flush mounted so you didn't accidently knock them off with your fingers while feeling around for controls. It could work.

I ordered some 5x2mm and 5x1mm magnets that should be here in a week. I'm thinking I could put the 2mm magnets under the surface of the button box, so they don't show and put the 1mm magnets into the bottom of labels to keep them thin this might work. I would expect to need a minimum of two magnets for each label so they hold orientation.

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I created a test print that I can't test for a week, but the button box side has a 2.1mm x 4.95mm hole so I can press fit the magnets in place. The Label side has a 1.1mm x 4.95mm hole.

The key difference is that the button box side is printed fully supported. The Label side is printed with an unsupported overhang for the entire 5mm hole. I may need to give it another .1mm depth just to account for sagging filament, but I won't know until the magnets get here.

When I pulled these off the print bed, my first thought was that it looked like I had just printed Legos.

I reduced the font size and I think the text still looks clean with the .4mm nozzle. There is also a small .6mm chamfer on the bottom edge of both pieces just to make it easier to pop the pieces off with my fingernail.

The real test will be whether the magnets will hold the label in perfect alignment. Currently I'm using an 8mm on center offset. I wanted to standardize on the smallest offset that worked. If this works well I'll leave it be. If I need to widen it a bit, that will be fine too.

Magnet polarity will be the critical thing to get right if these are going to be interchangeable. I just realized that I need a small slot next to the magnet holes so I can get a pin or ice pick under them to pop them out in case I accidently put them in backwards. Otherwise I would likely destroy the part to get a magnet back out to flip it.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Another possibilty would be to "fix the location" by two pin/hole pairs and use the magnet only to keep the label in place. I think that would be much more secure against pushing the label sideways when feeling for the button in VR.

And to go nuts:

when switching the mapping of the button box from flying to driving you could switch the whole front plate complete with fixed labels.
A thin front plate fixated with the contours of the switches and held in place by several magnets, that would be simrig porn

MFG Carsten

 

[RCHeliguy]

If I used pins than the magnets would not be needed. The parts can not be 3D printed with pins due to the print orientation of the parts. So I would have to insert metal pins. I could print the holes for metal pins, but I'm not excited about that.

I'm also looking to add some tactile boundaries between controls which would make an entire plate hard.

I was considering using laminated paper labels. If you went that route than you could have complete sheets that dropped in. However I like the look of 3D printed labels better than printed labels even with the Matte laminating pouches I have.

I actually got a lamination machine when I designed my first button box because I thought I would be printing out labels for it. I ended up never putting a label on that button box.

To be fair I'm going to test the magnetic solution to make sure it will work well. If not, I will switch gears again.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

Magnet polarity will be the critical thing to get right if these are going to be interchangeable. I just realized that I need a small slot next to the magnet holes so I can get a pin or ice pick under them to pop them out in case I accidently put them in backwards. Otherwise I would likely destroy the part to get a magnet back out to flip it.

You should just be able to remove them with another (maybe bigger) magnet.