Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Deleted member 197115]

The software component looks to be hard to protect and charge for given it is based on simhum and one of mar latte's recent posts suggesting that charging for the profiles is not something that the developer of simhub wanted for his software.

I was about to ask this very question, is Wotever fine with 3rd party commercialization of what essentially is a community driven project?

 

[metalnwood]

Hold on, its is not about "my goal"
As has been discussed on these forums for several years, "the purpose" of applying the DSP is to achieve

A) More Performance
B) More Control
C) Improve Or Reduce Piston Pang / Reverb Issues
D) Configure to user preferences.

When we take into account the understanding we have of what frequencies specific models operate best with. Also what peaks, these have in their operational character. Then we can apply a general Crossover Curve that lets the user achieve from the individual unit a response over the frequency range it will be used with to determine its output.

From this general curve, then the user can apply finer control with PEQ or DEQ on amps like the NXD series.
In some cases, the DEQ may actually be better but in fairness, you find it hard to get a group of owners that are willing to dig deep into settings to achieve perhaps additional minor benefits. Another example is ratio or compression, where can you show me a guide on configuring these or if they are usable with transducers?

What I can tell you is, this is not that difficult to determine if you need to raise or lower certain settings based on the feel/noise the unit may generate in the seat. Users only need to grasp the basics of lowering/increasing the amplitude of frequencies and feel exactly what it does. They do not necessarily need to see a reading telling them what it is to achieve a setting they are happy with...

How have people been able to get by with configuring or tuning tactile installations for the last 10+ years without having a sensor or readings from that sensor? It is possible to create more than one DSP profile, then for a person to load and make it very simple. We just get several owners of similar cockpits/transducers to confirm DSP settings they found operated really well for them.

So for me, I guess you need to illustrate what the benefits of such is and that indeed it not only works accurately but lets a user achieve higher performance. I am not against it, I question the true need for it lads, and still, wait for you guys to show the benefits of it being applied and compared to DSP settings we know work rather well anyways.

Thanks, that is what I was asking and it does sound like what we are doing is different. You are not trying to necessarily have a similar level of output felt at the rear end across the freq's that you might be able to do that.

More to tame/enhance one or two problem areas that might be too far out from a default setting.

The key thing, said more than once, is that I am only describing what I did. It took less time than it took you to write your initial reply. I am not telling anyone to do it. I have said what I was trying to achieve with it, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think you said you have spent thousands on software to analyse what you are doing - because this is of interest to you. I dont assume for one minute you are trying to say others should do that as well but at every turn you make it sound like others doing more than your average Joe must mean they expect Joe to do thta too. No, just doing our own thing.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Mr Latte]

I was about to ask this very question, is Wotever fine with 3rd party commercialization of what essentially is a community driven project?

Some people here are making false claims, firstly can anyone show me where I have said I have in the past, currently, or in the future will be selling effects? Secondly, how do you sell effects when they can be copied, who will buy them?

Additionally, you will find I have recommended Simhub over other solutions and that people donate kindly based on how awesome a program it is. Personally, I have donated more than once....

My understanding is, effects you or I create within his software are your own "IP"
Its a tone generator, audio creation tool. Just as a company from a leading DAW utility cannot claim any rights of ownership on the music you create on that.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[metalnwood]

Some people here are making false claims, firstly can anyone show me where I have said I have in the past, currently, or in the future will be selling effects? Secondly, how do you sell effects when they can be copied, who will buy them?

Additionally, you will find I have recommended Simhub over other solutions and that people donate kindly based on how awesome a program it is. Personally, I have donated more than once....

My understanding is, effects you or I create within his software are your own "IP"
Its a tone generator, audio creation tool. Just as a company from a leading DAW utility cannot claim any rights of ownership on the music you create on that.

Questions are not claims

So profiles will be free? (Q, not a claim) Although you are stating it's actually your IP which could be charged for? Sounds interesting to see in action.

 

[Callsign BH]

Is it not best if we are just patient to see what the formal RaceBass offering(s) are? Rather than (potentially incorrectly) speculating?

In the mean time, use what you've got. Seems like most of the vocal majority here already have a set up they are happy with; use that for now and evaluate if it's worth changing to RaceBass when it's available. I am personally just continuing to sit on my uninstalled hardware because I am curious to see what the offerings are, and I am sensitive to duplicative tasks -- I don't want to spend time to do something just to have to undo it and redo it. Perhaps I could simply bolt one of my BK-CT's to the seat and just wire it with no isolation, but even then, why drill holes if that might not be the long term solution? Best to just wait and see.

Overall, maybe everyone can't be patient. Most people aren't, I suppose. I just don't see the value in outwardly speculating "It will probably cost X", "they will probably sell Y', and "I bet they also force you to add Z".

Not trying to start a flame war, but perhaps less speculation until details are released would be beneficial. That said, it is mildly entertaining to read and follow along with.

Edit: Not directed at anyone in specific, just a general observation. Seems like all the last few pages are is speculation and wars on what is "best". I'm just not sure if changes anything at this point anyway. This is also a 1000% uneducated observation as most of this reads like a foreign language to me bc I don't know the first thing about tactile.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Callsign BH]

Mr. Latte is active here. So why not asking him directly? What is the problem with that?

I doubt he is going to answer anything given he is engaged with SimTag and likely bound by agreements. Can't imagine he has free reign, or interest (not to mention legal ability) to disclose anything.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[dwightyone]

Well, this thread is going slightly off topic so I might as well take it further.

I took the plunge and isolated my seat somewhat - loads of washers separating the seat from the wooden base that the full length of the seat rails were resting on and screwed into, and good lord, what a difference it makes with my buttkicker gamer 2! It's now awesome! If anyone else has a wooden seat box as a base do yourself a favour and go to the shed and get that half bag full of washers you've collected from flat pack furniture assembly that's gone wrong and re-purpose them, and feel butt heaven.

Edit - sounds a bit wrong at the end there but you get my drift - tactile feel.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks, that is what I was asking and it does sound like what we are doing is different. You are not trying to necessarily have a similar level of output felt at the rear end across the freq's that you might be able to do that.

More to tame/enhance one or two problem areas that might be too far out from a default setting.

The key thing, said more than once, is that I am only describing what I did. It took less time than it took you to write your initial reply. I am not telling anyone to do it. I have said what I was trying to achieve with it, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think you said you have spent thousands on software to analyse what you are doing - because this is of interest to you. I dont assume for one minute you are trying to say others should do that as well but at every turn you make it sound like others doing more than your average Joe must mean they expect Joe to do thta too. No, just doing our own thing.

It appears based on the approach being shared, there is a need "to skin a cat" in a new or different way. By the way, you phrase this, it's like you are on a mission to do something or prove something.

What did you or others find wrong with the current methods and the need to apply a sensor? I have yet to read from "you" or "others" here what the "issues are" that "need improved" or how the solution/method you/others propose betters the approach of someone using an already pre-configured DSP setting to suit the hardware installed?

What is not clear and you need to clarify is what benefits the sensor brings.
I have asked several questions on findings for tests that may not yet even have actually been done regards multiple units being installed on a seat?

Ultimately the sensor is not going to do anything magical, so please do me a favor.
Spend a while tuning a BK, tuning a TST, tuning EXC by feeling alone.......

If you do a decent job you are going to come up with a curve that is similar to what others will have discovered. The reason being the hardware has to have its own optimal settings for how we are using it. Granted, you may have some variation with EQ to adapt differences in peoples installation or materials.

The idea of recommending or selling a sensor to people to run a test to click a button to then apply the DSP required. It's an idea, it's not a proven solution or a "different way to skin a cat" because what would happen is, settings people discover for the DSP/EQ that are pretty good they will make do and people would just end up using or copying, buying nothing....


My Own Build
Let's please clarify something else as well.. I did not say I spent all the money I have on additional hardware for the purpose of only "analyzing what I am doing".

The hardware is also needed to achieve the tactile installation my rig will have and gives me the ability to bring even more control than any other solution offers. One of the fundamental differences is I can output individual effects per channel, to then if I want to monitor or control that sole effect or any combination of effects via wifi on iOS/Android or Midi controller. I won't need to go into Simhub to adjust volumes for an effects gain level. I just do it via a motorized slider on the midi controller or from an iPad right next to the seat.

With such, it's also possible to use DCA groups to control selected or grouped (multiple channel volumes) via 1 slider. What is also kinda crazy but possible is to be able to apply DSP per effect not just per channel. As everything is routed through a professional DAW then that means anything that can be done with audio is possible. That includes the ability to choose from or use the worlds best plugins that are beyond what amps or standalone DSP offer. With the hardware, I can then also create whatever output mix I want and direct that to whatever channels I want so quite beyond the constraints of Simhub or what most users will do with tactile.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[metalnwood]

What is not clear and you need to clarify is what benefits the sensor brings.

I don't, I am not selling, encouraging or expecting anyone do do anything. I just said what I did.

This is part of what is frustrating here. People just try and share what they are doing, many people just ignore as they were happy with what they did. Some other people may have an interest and wind up wasting an hour 'tinkering' just like I go in to the workshop and do sometimes. That 60 minutes of interesting stuff may not save the world but who cares.

You have to start differentiating between what people do and share and what other people take away from it. I think you are the only person that thinks anyone else is trying to push crazy ideas on to everyone else. Everyone else seems happy to take it or leave it.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[dwightyone]

On topic: tactile immersion

Post some pics to help visualize your new setup - There are many users of the BK Gamer 2 it seems.....

It's literally me sitting on a wooden box with my wheel on my lap but man, at least I can now vibrate when doing so with the best of them.

 

[Mr Latte]

I don't, I am not selling, encouraging or expecting anyone do do anything. I just said what I did.

This is part of what is frustrating here. People just try and share what they are doing, many people just ignore as they were happy with what they did. Some other people may have an interest and wind up wasting an hour 'tinkering' just like I go in to the workshop and do sometimes. That 60 minutes of interesting stuff may not save the world but who cares.

You have to start differentiating between what people do and share and what other people take away from it. I think you are the only person that thinks anyone else is trying to push crazy ideas on to everyone else. Everyone else seems happy to take it or leave it.

I am not going to engage on this any further. I think I have put enough time into discussing it. Asking why to do it, seeking data to highlight that indeed it is worth considering. Have we all said enough yet or does this "sensor topic" have to go on for another 3 pages?

May I suggest that you guys that are interested in the application of the sensor and applying that approach create a new thread for that topic? Please within it by all means showcase results, make comparisons, and highlight why this alternative approach is worthwhile because so far not one of you has shown any data or reason for people reading this thread to consider using it.

Some of you need to lay off the speculations, but its rather amusing...

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[metalnwood]

I am not going to engage on this any further. I think I have put enough time into discussing it. Asking why to do it, seeking data to highlight that indeed it is worth considering. Have we all said enough yet or does this "sensor topic" have to go on for another 3 pages?

May I suggest that you guys that are interested in the application of the sensor and applying that approach create a new thread for that topic? Please within it by all means showcase results, make comparisons, and highlight why this alternative approach is worthwhile because so far not one of you has shown any data or reason for people reading this thread to consider using it.

Some of you need to lay off the speculations, but its rather amusing...

You should fee free not to engage in any topic that has no relevance for you. Its only gone on so long because you want to engage in something that has no interest for you.

If I have something else I want to share I will, feel free not to reply if it doesnt interest you. Thats really how forums work.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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