Verstappen vs Leclerc - Overtake Fair or Foul?

[Appie Kuipers]

F1 is SICK! It's the only raceclass where constantly penalty's fly around, and real racing is made a crime. Overtaking by pits stops and drs made F1 a farce. It won't take long and the fans are leaving, there is better stuff going around

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Verstappen finds his true form

 

[Sasha Jednak]

I think that the issue here is much simpler then it looks. All the yellow curbs were installed because they didn't want to penalize going off track, so they put curbs to lose you time if you go wide. But if they have penalized off track excursions, they wouldn't need yellow curbs and in this case Leclerc would be able to get back same as Max against Vettel in Silverstone last or 2 years ago I don't remember.
They are "the best drivers" in the world, or at least they say they are, so treat them like that. Driving ON track is basic driving skill. i don't care who you are if you have 4 wheels of track and you gain time or position either slow down or receive the penalty.

 

[keto95]

Max was in front of charles he defence his line.

See the picture in post #63 in this thread.

 

[Stephen O'Sullivan]

There is nothing wrong with aggressive overtaking (it's part and parcel of racing) but Verstappen took that corner as though LeClerc didn't exist. The cars were side-by-side, there was contact, and Verstappen ploughed on without a care in the world. It wasn't overtly dangerous, but it's only a small step to doing the same thing when there are walls and barriers nearby in a later race. I didn't like Schumacher's "give way or you will crash" technique then and I don't like to see Verstappen repeating it now.

 

[RasmusP]

Pretty sure the Red Bull was faster (he overtook him right?)

You misunderstood. What I said:
Leclerc chose the outside line because his Ferrari was faster with a wide apex and a more momentum keeping line even when he was alone on the track.
So doing a tight apex without going wide at the apex would've resulted in a clear pace advantage of the red bull after the corner.

His only chance was to take the fastest line for his Ferrari, which was around the outside.
He didn't keep in mind that he might get pushed wide, since it's against the rules if the cars are totally side by side.
Apparently "side by side" is not front wheel next to front wheel but "the point of the car closest to the racing line and track flow". And yeah, verstappens inner front wing edge was "ahead" of the leclerc then.

Anyway I'm looking forward to all drivers pushing each other out from now on. Just wrestle for the inside and throw whoever is next to you into the off.
This way every battle will only last one corner though.

You can see it on this example already.
Giving each other space = nice battle over a full lap and ongoing.
Pushing the outside car off = one corner and the battle is done.

I think verstappen would've won anyway. I would've preferred a nice and sportsmanship like battle until the finish line but instead we got a dirty, rule bending move, lasting one corner and that was it. With one driver totally pissed off afterwards instead of celebrating together for the awesome battle on track.

 

[Bobby Pennington]

I'm at a loss for words really. I understand conceding the corner, but do you have to concede the track as well? I've done this same exact move here in our races and always waited on the guy I pushed off the track because I know he has a right to part of the track. If I dive down the inside, I try to make sure to leave room and when I don't, it's on me.

 

[muzikant]

No. Because VER was attacking, he started the engagement from behind LEC. The rule you refer to is when you are defending, when you are in front already... then you have the right to make the race line as you please.

The sporting regulations are pretty clear. You are only kidding yourself if think VER made a clean pass. As pointed out by others had it been LEC forcing VER off track you would be singing a different tune.

If you read up on some of the follow up justification by the stewards. Its a pretty weak ruling. It was political, I wonder if Liberty were involved. Lots of questions remain, that said its history now and life goes on.

what Max said after the race Leclerc had done the same... they are racers

 

[muzikant]

See the picture in post #63 in this thread.

A picture is one moment, see they video

 

[Erg]

I think we need a wall there like in Canada to see a penalty. It looked as simple as this to me.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

With all due respect: Your wrong!
Because Max was on the racing line all through the corner...Max knew it was his corner before they turned in because:
1...he was all the way beside LeClerc
2...he was on the inside

The two above facts prove it was Max's corner and so he could track on the racing line all the way around.

Besides, if the stewards had stolen that win from Max they would of damaged the sport! The stewards should of made their decision much sooner rather than waiting so long after the race. Ferrari must of put in a huge protest?

No, it's not a drivers corner just because they are on the inside. As you state yourself, Verstappen was all the way beside Leclerc. They were side by side. You cannot just run someone off the road because you are side by side and you are the attacker.

"Racing Line". What is the racing line? What about the corners with multiple lines? What about rain, the crossover between dry and rain, and when it rains so much that the rubber is washed away? Is it all down to his in on the inside?

LeClerc left enough room for 2 F1 cars to go up the inside, that's his fault. You cannot concede space like that then look for stewards to rule in your favor because you lost the corner.

Why did he feel the need to go offline? Why not make MAX go outside?

You can do exactly what you want in regards to where you place the car, as long as you don't crash in to other drivers, put others in danger, or drive others off the track.

As has been explained. The Ferrari had worse tyres, the Red Bull was faster, had better exit grip, and Verstappen would have DRS after the corner due to where the detection zone is. The only way to defend, was to get a much better exit. You don't get that from hugging the inside line. Unless you run the guy on the outside off the track, but we don't want to see that, do we?

 

[Robert_S]

He (Max) should give him a space like a lap before
go to 4:00 , was that fair , hehehe

 

[Case_]

(Reading this whole discussion explains *so much* about what you see on the virtual tracks - at least outside of RD.)

 

[muzikant]

No, it's not a drivers corner just because they are on the inside. As you state yourself, Verstappen was all the way beside Leclerc. They were side by side. You cannot just run someone off the road because you are side by side and you are the attacker.

"Racing Line". What is the racing line? What about the corners with multiple lines? What about rain, the crossover between dry and rain, and when it rains so much that the rubber is washed away? Is it all down to his in on the inside?



You can do exactly what you want in regards to where you place the car, as long as you don't crash in to other drivers, put others in danger, or drive others off the track.

As has been explained. The Ferrari had worse tyres, the Red Bull was faster, had better exit grip, and Verstappen would have DRS after the corner due to where the detection zone is. The only way to defend, was to get a much better exit. You don't get that from hugging the inside line. Unless you run the guy on the outside off the track, but we don't want to see that, do we?

No Leclec had the door wide open...if you do that by Verstappen you are in trouble. Max was close before Leclerc in that corner.

and finaly had Leclerc the choice to let Max passed... and go for a DRS for the next coner but he decides to push his tires in to Max. And not a foot from his trottle and cry for a penalty. No hand shakking on the podium, bad losser.

Racing incident is a better word. No one is hurt a liitle kiss... like touring and indy cars thats racing and thats why people love racing.

 

[RowanZa]

From my point of view this sums it up nicely - case closed
https://wtf1.com/post/heres-why-ver...clerc/?utm_source=wtf1-rssfeed&utm_medium=rss

 

[muzikant]

Edit... both are super talented drivers. Maybe this time was a little karma from the past from Charles. But I realy enjoy this young boys

 

[PuRe_AdDicT]

Montoya ran out of talent and grip in this scenario, however, I do feel Montoya made a better fist of defending corner entry than LeClerc managed (who was too wide) even though it didn't ultimately work out for Montoya

 

[mantasisg]

He (Max) should give him a space like a lap before
go to 4:00 , was that fair , hehehe

Thats nice video.

Also thats racing.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

No Leclec had the door wide open...if you do that by Verstappen you are in trouble. Max was close before Leclerc in that corner.

and finaly had Leclerc the choice to let Max passed... and go for a DRS for the next coner but he decides to push his tires in to Max. And not a foot from his trottle and cry for a penalty. No hand shakking on the podium, bad losser.

Racing incident is a better word. No one is hurt a liitle kiss... like touring and indy cars thats racing and thats why people love racing.

There is nothing, anywhere that says you either have to defend on the inside towards a corner, or you aren't defending at all. It is perfectly legitimate to stay on the outside, most often to prepare for an undercut. However, Verstappen closed that off really well. The issue however, is that Verstappen crept up relatively slowly on to Leclerc. This works amazingly in hindering Leclerc doing the undercut.

The problem happened when Leclerc didn't bite - he didn't go for the undercut. As the cars were travelling in virtually the same speed, and they were wheel to wheel. In removing any chance for an undercut, Verstappen opened up the chance of Leclerc going on the outside.

If Leclerc had even attempted the undercut, Verstappen would've made the pass easily, as Leclerc would've fallen behind, and wouldn't had a chance to change the approach and go for the outside afterwards.

However, there is nothing that says you cannot defend from the outside. Lap 68 is a good example.

When it comes to side by side racing, leaving just enough room. This is awesome.

 

[bosco lam]

why angry guys verstappen deserved it and also congratulations honda for the win