2023 Formula One Belgian Grand Prix

muzikant · Jul 31, 2023

Badwheels said:
Ok, I will say it.

Every modern F1 driver is overrated. And I mean all of them. They are nothing but "steerers". The constant chatter from the pit box is unreal. "You are losing time in corner X", " So and so is 3.2 seconds behind", "So and so's cousin is 2.3 seconds ahead", "Engine mode E=Mc2", "Your butt is creating too much drag", " Ok, now push", " Ok, save your tires".

Dafuq is the driver really doing? Yeah, you do to have good reactions and good hand/eye to drive at speed, but half of what is going on isn't even in their control. I need you to tell me to push ? Really ? I have a multi-million dollar machine in my hands and you think I am just driving Ms. Daisy ?

I believe with the amount of money involved in having a F1 team, there is no way the higher ups are going to let some sawed-off, too short for any other sport dude make decisions about what to do with those cars.

They just follow directions for 2 hours, 23 times a year. No wonder they all whine constantly.

what nonsense! do you have any idea how fit these guys must be to race.

the F1 field is also closer together than ever. I don't understand your complaining

Celestiale · Jul 31, 2023

muzikant said:
I think it's great that Verstappen wins everything. It shows he's the best driver and as a Verstappen fan I have no problem with that... 7 years enough watching the silver parade of Toto and Lewis being treated to heaven. Times change friend And even if everyone had an equal car, I still see Verstappen winning, because he have that magic If you don't like Verstappen, I'm afraid it won't change much in the next ten years.

it's simple the other teams have to build a better car. that's how it has always worked in F1, nothing new under the sun

10 years is a bit optimistic. There are 2 more seasons before the rules change massively and the cars will change massively, electric powertrain will be more important than ever and balance of power between teams will shift (again). There is a good chance Audi and Renault powered cars will be at the front for once since they have the most experience/success with electric racing engines.

muzikant · Jul 31, 2023

Celestiale said:
10 years is a bit optimistic. There are 2 more seasons before the rules change massively and the cars will change massively, electric powertrain will be more important than ever and balance of power between teams will shift (again). There is a good chance Audi and Renault powered cars will be at the front for once since they have the most experience/success with electric racing engines.

let's hope so for you! I read this morning that especially British f1 news newspapers don't like Verstappen's dominance anymore. chance? for seven years they never wrote about it when their king was on the throne. it makes me laugh

Badwheels · Jul 31, 2023

muzikant said:
what nonsense! do you have any idea how fit these guys must be to race.

the F1 field is also closer together than ever. I don't understand your complaining

How does their fitness have anything to do with the fact they don't determine how the car is driven ? I never said they aren't fit. But they aren't determining their own destiny in the races or practices. It's " do this, do that, don' t do this, don't do that".

Just listen to Max's race engineer's transmissions from yesterday. Even the so called best driver right now is basically being called an idiot for how hard he went on his tires after the pit stop.

People idolize Senna, Prost and Hill. Do you think they had people chirping in their ears the whole race about " save your tires, time to push, engine mode blah blah".
Those drivers had to think for themselves.
Hell, even I could follow instructions for 2 hours.

PickABetterUsername01 · Jul 31, 2023

Badwheels said:
How does their fitness have anything to do with the fact they don't determine how the car is driven ? I never said they aren't fit. But they aren't determining their own destiny in the races or practices. It's " do this, do that, don' t do this, don't do that".

Just listen to Max's race engineer's transmissions from yesterday. Even the so called best driver right now is basically being called an idiot for how hard he went on his tires after the pit stop.

People idolize Senna, Prost and Hill. Do you think they had people chirping in their ears the whole race about " save your tires, time to push, engine mode blah blah".
Those drivers had to think for themselves.
Hell, even I could follow instructions for 2 hours.

You sound like an old man complaining about modern days...

You example doesn't make any sense. Completely different tyres and cars, jesus what am I reading. You wanna complain about tyres, you go after Pirelli and the FIA, they want tyres to have high deg. You wanna complain about technology, well too bad, that's how it works, the only way to move is forward, or do you expect we go back to cars looking like a bathtub with an engine? F1 is an engineering sport, get over it. If it's as easy as following instructions while driving, every weekend, we would have both teammates finishing next to each other, except that doesn't happen at all, I wonder why.

"tHoSe dRiVerS hAd tO tHiNk tO tHemSelvEs". Lmao.

Zolazem · Jul 31, 2023

BREAKING NEWS

muzikant · Jul 31, 2023

Badwheels said:
How does their fitness have anything to do with the fact they don't determine how the car is driven ? I never said they aren't fit. But they aren't determining their own destiny in the races or practices. It's " do this, do that, don' t do this, don't do that".

Just listen to Max's race engineer's transmissions from yesterday. Even the so called best driver right now is basically being called an idiot for how hard he went on his tires after the pit stop.

People idolize Senna, Prost and Hill. Do you think they had people chirping in their ears the whole race about " save your tires, time to push, engine mode blah blah".
Those drivers had to think for themselves.
Hell, even I could follow instructions for 2 hours.

in the time of Prost, Senna and Hill you mentioned, the technology was not that far yet. They can now align every inch of the car.
apart from that, the old F1 cars were fragile in that days... so they paid attention to other things... accelerating and not paying attention to anything, it never certainly wasn't!!!
so you just shout something to make your story

F1 has always been a technological advancement. As a driver you have to adapt to this. I can still remember that Jacky Ickx from the 60's struggled in the 70's with the wing cars.. when he was considered one of the greatest talent. Ickx never became world champion in F1 because he was too old school

The technology defines this sport, not the driver.
If you don't go you will never win a race and you will soon be fired

pai · Jul 31, 2023

In the time of Prost, Senna, and Hill (1993), cars had automatic upshifting and the pitwall changed every single adjustment available remotely.

paracletus · Jul 31, 2023

From a spectator's view, F1 would benefit from abolishing team radio, imho.
Limiting communication between the team & driver to hold-up boards on the side of the track would be most welcome. Those were the days.

Richard Wilks · Jul 31, 2023

pai said:
In the time of Prost, Senna, and Hill (1993), cars had automatic upshifting and the pitwall changed every single adjustment available remotely.

Lets be fair, that only happened in 1993

Today they have 2 way electronic diffs (that work like traction control and stability control), active brake bias (that act like ABS) and active clutch engagement (that act like launch control). And until the end of 2021, they had self leveling suspension (that acted almost like active suspension).

So they have more driving aids that maybe ever, considering how sophisticated the power trains are.

THK84 · Jul 31, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
So they have more driving aids that maybe ever, considering how sophisticated the power trains are.

But then again, they have so much to manage on their steering wheels. Being quick requires skills, no matter the aids etc.

Richard Wilks · Jul 31, 2023

THK84 said:
But then again, they have so much to manage on their steering wheels. Being quick requires skills, no matter the aids etc.

Except they don't manage it. The wheels and pits tell them exactly what to change and when. They even tell them the best places to lift to save fuel or harvast energy.

THK84 · Jul 31, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Except they don't manage it. The wheels and pits tell them exactly what to change and when. They even tell them the best places to lift to save fuel or harvast energy.

Damn, yes. Wonder guess that explains it. For example telling Max so much more then Perez, hence him being so much better at it....

They should also stop having co-drivers in rally too. No skill.

pai · Jul 31, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Lets be fair, that only happened in 1993

Today they have 2 way electronic diffs (that work like traction control and stability control), active brake bias (that act like ABS) and active clutch engagement (that act like launch control). And until the end of 2021, they had self leveling suspension (that acted almost like active suspension).

So they have more driving aids that maybe ever, considering how sophisticated the power trains are.

It was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment!

pai · Jul 31, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Except they don't manage it. The wheels and pits tell them exactly what to change and when. They even tell them the best places to lift to save fuel or harvast energy.

Now, seriously. After the scandal regarding Rosberg's radio communications in 2014 when he would ask for any driving tips in search of a performance advantage, there was a clampdown for 2015. When was that lifted? Or have teams managed to work around it? Or is it simply not strict enough?

pepucho · Jul 31, 2023

It's been my first Spa and my second F1 GP ever (previous and first was Catalunya 1999) and I'm amazed. I'm just now finally at home after 14 hours taking trains, cars, an airplane and more cars, and I'm more than happy. A couple of drops ran down my cheeks when being in the fanzone I looked to the Raidillon, after watching dozens of races in Spa by TV and thousand of laps in simulators. I was wearing AM/Alonso cap and a couple of AM staff asked us to take a pic and chat a bit. My wife and me told them that we are shy for a video, but they posted our photo in their twitter (finally I realized I was idiot, they gave even passes to paddock to some of the interviewed fans). Rain made all special. I was in a covered grandstand and could watch the cars from Le Source to the start of Kemmel. You can imagine I was stunned with the views. After the friday, this 45 year old kid didn't want to go to sleep to not forget any of the details. I'll mention the trip from Verviers to the circuit by shuttle bus, that was a complete nightmare. Crowds of people pushing each other because of the bad organization of the supposedly queues, made it really hard. And the TEC employees making the shuttles appear like sardines cans. If I return, I'll avoid TEC considering my wife suffered a light elbow strain after being pushed to the door by 3 teenager supporters, and I have a condition in the joints and had to stand up in the buses for almost 2 hours each trip. Maybe you think this is whining, and could be, but Spa made it worth. I hope I can come back to make it better, but even this way was worth.

About racing... I'm amazed with the sound of the Porsche Cup's engines! It's a blast, never imagined they sounded that much live. The F1 races with the mixed conditions were fun. I could cheer Alonso and enjoyed his fight with George and his tyre management, and his pragmatic interpretation of the races. He knew Lewis was a impossible target and focused in keeping the car in front of George, and finally he opened a clear gap with the remaining tyre. It's the first time I can see him, and I follow him since he was driving the Formula Nissan. I don't give a f about drivers nationalities, even if he was not spanish he would be my favorite driver right now. Shame I couldn't see him fighting Lewis, my second favorite.

Finally, I liked to chat with some fans with different stories: an scottish father bringing his son to the GP -tho he didn't like the race cars at all, lovely-, a couple of chinese girls supporting Lewis, our french neighbours in the grandstand cheering Charles... Nah, impossible to describe with words, but you know how you feel when a 7 year old kid's dream comes true 38 years after.

muzikant · Aug 1, 2023

pepucho said:
It's been my first Spa and my second F1 GP ever (previous and first was Catalunya 1999) and I'm amazed. I'm just now finally at home after 14 hours taking trains, cars, an airplane and more cars, and I'm more than happy. A couple of drops ran down my cheeks when being in the fanzone I looked to the Raidillon, after watching dozens of races in Spa by TV and thousand of laps in simulators. I was wearing AM/Alonso cap and a couple of AM staff asked us to take a pic and chat a bit. My wife and me told them that we are shy for a video, but they posted our photo in their twitter (finally I realized I was idiot, they gave even passes to paddock to some of the interviewed fans). Rain made all special. I was in a covered grandstand and could watch the cars from Le Source to the start of Kemmel. You can imagine I was stunned with the views. After the friday, this 45 year old kid didn't want to go to sleep to not forget any of the details. I'll mention the trip from Verviers to the circuit by shuttle bus, that was a complete nightmare. Crowds of people pushing each other because of the bad organization of the supposedly queues, made it really hard. And the TEC employees making the shuttles appear like sardines cans. If I return, I'll avoid TEC considering my wife suffered a light elbow strain after being pushed to the door by 3 teenager supporters, and I have a condition in the joints and had to stand up in the buses for almost 2 hours each trip. Maybe you think this is whining, and could be, but Spa made it worth. I hope I can come back to make it better, but even this way was worth.

About racing... I'm amazed with the sound of the Porsche Cup's engines! It's a blast, never imagined they sounded that much live. The F1 races with the mixed conditions were fun. I could cheer Alonso and enjoyed his fight with George and his tyre management, and his pragmatic interpretation of the races. He knew Lewis was a impossible target and focused in keeping the car in front of George, and finally he opened a clear gap with the remaining tyre. It's the first time I can see him, and I follow him since he was driving the Formula Nissan. I don't give a f about drivers nationalities, even if he was not spanish he would be my favorite driver right now. Shame I couldn't see him fighting Lewis, my second favorite.

Finally, I liked to chat with some fans with different stories: an scottish father bringing his son to the GP -tho he didn't like the race cars at all, lovely-, a couple of chinese girls supporting Lewis, our french neighbours in the grandstand cheering Charles... Nah, impossible to describe with words, but you know how you feel when a 7 year old kid's dream comes true 38 years after.

Beautyfull story god bless you

Richard Wilks · Aug 1, 2023

pai said:
Now, seriously. After the scandal regarding Rosberg's radio communications in 2014 when he would ask for any driving tips in search of a performance advantage, there was a clampdown for 2015. When was that lifted? Or have teams managed to work around it? Or is it simply not strict enough?

It was lifted 8 races later from what i remember, because the teams and drivers kept crying, specially the british press, since Hamilton seemed to be one of the most affected by it...

pai · Aug 1, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
It was lifted 8 races later from what i remember, because the teams and drivers kept crying, specially the british press, since Hamilton seemed to be one of the most affected by it...

Thank you. It definitely needs a comeback.

stbreaker · Aug 2, 2023

pai said:
Thank you. It definitely needs a comeback.

In fairness, I think the real issue with the radio ban was that it prevented teams from telling the drivers how to stop cars from blowing up, which might be fine if there wasn’t a cost cap and an allocation of parts that you’re penalized for using more than a certain amount.

If I remember correctly, FIA tried to allow only “non-coaching” messages, but the teams (rightfully IMO) argued that they need to be able to tell drivers to avoid kerbs that were cutting tires or other hazards that necessitated altering the racing line.

2023 Formula One Belgian Grand Prix

Who are you cheering on in the 2023 Formula One Belgian Grand Prix?

Max Verstappen

Sergio Perez

Lewis Hamilton

George Russell

Lando Norris

Oscar Piastri

Charles Leclerc

Carlos Sainz

Fernando Alonso

Lance Stroll

Valtteri Bottas

Guanyu Zhou

Kevin Magnussen

Nico Hulkenberg

Esteban Ocon

Pierre Gasly

Alexander Albon

Logan Sargeant

Daniel Ricciardo

Yuki Tsunoda

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