Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

"So far I haven't felt any lag with the APO. FYI, the Platinum is 10" dia instead of 8" for the Gold and lower."

All my TST 429 must-have shrunk 2 inches. :D
I can assure you they are 8"

I advise you to try the Aston Engine test I shared, but to apply +10dB via DSP to under 25Hz for CT and map the low bass layers of the effect to the BK. Then any layers over 35Hz map these to the TST.

This way you reduce the frequency workload to each unit but gain the benefits of each unit's performances.

See how it feels...
 
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"So far I haven't felt any lag with the APO. FYI, the Platinum is 10" dia instead of 8" for the Gold and lower."

All my TST 429 must-have shrunk 2 inches. :D
I can assure you they are 8"
I guess I saw bad specifications. My bad.

Sadly, I have no idea what this test is, or where it's located.
 
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Sadly, I have no idea what this test is, or where it's located.
Perhaps this attachment:
I found a folder I had with previous workings into shift effects.
Like RPM, I don't think shifts should feel the same in all types of cars. Yet I expect most users to have a shift effect they use on most cars, right?

I want to be able to have a range of shift effects that vary from being smoother and more aggressive, to suit certain cars. Also to suit different user moods or preferences.

A Lambo should not feel the same as an MX5 :)
The gearshift sensation, is an aspect of the immersion and these can be improved I think a lot and especially with owners using the better tactile gear.

Ideally, I think I found what I wanted with a "Blib" spike that only happens on downshifts.
But I want this to only operate when at a predetermined high RPM eg: @80%

Currently, it works on all downshifts it feels a bit intense, so I want it to essentially operate with the rpm. You are right that there is a slight delay as the gear has to be activated but used in this way it's role is to give a nice thrust when downshifting, its purpose is to make downshifts at race-type speeds and peak rpm more thrilling.


With the response curve, we should also be able to vary to some extent how it feels with whatever Hz we apply.
 
Err it was created and tested on ACC
That is how it should first be tried.

Response curve is mapped to this cars rpm.
I understand. I just don't have ACC setup at all. I haven't uninstalled it like I have PC2 and AC, but I haven't even spun it up in close to 2 years. I'd have to configure it from the ground up.

I spend about 75% of my time in iRacing and 25% in Dirt Rally 2.
 
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You reckon that the software DSP is doing the job for you Heli? I’ve (hopefully) found an NX3000 non dsp that I might be able to grab for a decent price while my current amp is MIA. I trade more power for the hardware dsp and my current amp, in the hope that it’s fixed, now sells for 100 bucks more than what I paid at the start of the year.

I’m waiting for a reply. It’s local and I can pick up probably tomorrow so I’ll be back on my tactile game sooner than I first thought if all works out.
 
You reckon that the software DSP is doing the job for you Heli? I’ve (hopefully) found an NX3000 non dsp that I might be able to grab for a decent price while my current amp is MIA. I trade more power for the hardware dsp and my current amp, in the hope that it’s fixed, now sells for 100 bucks more than what I paid at the start of the year.

I’m waiting for a reply. It’s local and I can pick up probably tomorrow so I’ll be back on my tactile game sooner than I first thought if all works out.

So far I think the Equalizer APO software is working well. Just be aware it doesn't work with Windows 11 and it hasn't had any feature or bug maintenance since 2019. The most recent update was simply for Visual Studio reasons. I may download the source code and check it out. It's written in C++ which is the correct language to use for something like this. That said the signal processing will be a bunch of math that I'd likely have a hard time deciphering.

I haven't tested it thoroughly or analyzed the output. So far I haven't noticed any delay, but I wasn't looking for that last time I was using it. I'm also running an i9-9900K with plenty of cores to spare, so there may be no noticeable by a human being delay.

The User interface "APO Peace" has been under reasonably constant development up to February of this year. I didn't see any bugs with it while I was using it.

From a developer standpoint I very much like the idea of modifying the data while it's still simply data before it is made analog and sent out the audio port. The idea of running it through another device to convert the analog signal back to digital then modify the signal and convert it back to analog seems messy to me.

For the moment I'm sticking with it.

My NX4-6000 is capable of pushing my BK CT all the way and is basically two NX3000's.
So far I've got my Aura's at about 40% power on the dial, the TST329 at 50% and the BK-CT at 60%
 
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Err it was created and tested on ACC
That is how it should first be tried.

Response curve is mapped to this cars rpm.

I copy and pasted the RPM profile bundle into my existing iRacing profile. Sorry if that is blasphemy. I've been using V1 which seems better suited to use both transducers.

In iRacing with the Ferrari 488 GT3 it worked pretty well. I understand that you've got the green leds and redline mapped for the AM, and the idle may be a bit off, but I got to feel how the effects work and it feels better than my combination of lumpy idle then parametric rpm by a chunk. More importantly I believe I understand what you are trying to achieve with each piece.

I also notice that you are using some very low frequencies down to 7Hz and the CT seems very happy with them. I guess I still hadn't tapped into that potential.

I started to gang up effects using both the TST and CT like you recommended and that worked well. I did split the Wheel spin which is my favorite effect, I'm using the TST329 at a higher frequency earlier when the tires are just starting to slip and a little slip is OK, but then I have the CT kick in a bit further into the slide. This seems to be specific to each vehicle which makes me wonder how much of this is real loss of traction and how much of it is based on side G forces. I understand that some cars have a more controllable traction loss that is easy to recover from like the MX5 and some the GTE cars seem to break more suddenly.

I'm starting to see the potential of this combination and I'm very encouraged!
I have both the CT and the TST at 50% volume on my amp but I'm pulling some effects back.

Initially I was concerned the TST wouldn't be powerful enough, but as I'm exploring where it's sweet spots are and it has a number of them, I'm figuring out what to do with it.

I don't hear either the CT or the TST while I'm driving with my Index off ear headphones down.
 
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I am enjoying all the extra sensations, on the other hand it feels like a bit of sensory overload. I think it's only natural that you tend to want to "feel" everything when you first set it up, but then driving starts to feel busy. It's great to feel things, but it makes no sense for everything to be demanding your attention at the same time. I think it's time to start dialing things back again.

I am starting to look for balance now. I've got motion dialed back pretty well, and it is still there, but it no longer demands your attention unless something happens like hitting a curb or regaining control after a slide when the car first grabs again. It feels very natural now, but it disappears most of the time. My FFB feels great and gives me very useful information, but it also feels very natural and can disappear but is also always there. I'm still loving the G-Belt braking queues. That information is pretty well nuanced and useful. The shoulder harness pressure lets off as you come off the brakes and as you decelerate and you can feel when you are jamming the brakes or lightly trail braking. And the shifts are stronger feeling in the harness when you are on the brakes and they could disrupt you. I'm still learning to leverage that information, but I can't get enough of that sensation it brings so much immersion and information together definitely the single best bang for your buck for immersion and something you can actually use. It's still jumping out at me because it's new although it feels very natural. I'm hoping it starts to fade into the background soon and is just something that I subconsciously feel and interpret.

I've got my tactile set too high right now because I'm playing with it and I want to feel it slightly exaggerated. I have better effect differentiation now as well as more well rounded effects that are great for immersion, but still a little over the top. That's a very good thing because if it couldn't go over the top, it probably wouldn't be enough. I'd much rather be able to dial it back from too much. I'm still dialing in my wheel slide which is the most valuable tactile effect to me and I have more to play with and I have a lot of other tweaks to make.

I've been driving the same car around the same track for the last couple weeks in iRacing. I haven't started to play with my new transducer in Dirt Rally 2.0 and I don't have the G-Belt dialed in for DR2 either. I've had a lot more trouble dialing DR2 for tactile than I did with Dirt Rally 1.0. So I guess I'll spend a bit of time there soon. But I am a bit amazed that I've been enjoying running hot laps so much. It is a thoroughly engrossing experience.
 
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Have you boosted the BK DSP especially for increasing its sub 20Hz performance?

Not yet, but will do that soon!
Lots to think about, thanks for the reminder!
Did you say 3db or more ? I was looking back and didn't find if you had just mentioned this or if was something I saw you post a while back.

I wonder if the orientation matters much in this instance or if the fact the seat is sitting on a pivot is the only important thing. I'm definitely getting plenty of feeling coming through.

DualTransducers_6767.jpg
 
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Not yet, but will do that soon!
Lots to think about, thanks for the reminder!
Did you say 3db or more ? I was looking back and didn't find if you had just mentioned this or if was something I saw you post a while back.

With the Behringer DSP we can comfortably go to +10dB for 20Hz and the unit handle it but based on Simhub global volume (which is the actual soundcard) set to 50%. You may need more as the DSP amps allow us to increase the input gain for each channel, separately to the output gain.

This is an old example but worth trying the large BK with different curves. Restricted in range like the (blue) but you may find something similar to the (orange) may offer a good increase for low Hz output but still get as much range from the BK as possible. However, you should confirm and notice that the TST murders the BK for above 60Hz




Dont apply too much boost to the TST but its personal tuning to find an output character that fits well with your preferences and rig materials. PEQ can then be used to reduce or increase other frequencies based on the curve.
 
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Taking a break while we have some very bad lightning cells pass by.

I applied the curves and added some boost for the CT and some for the TST. I also tried to squeak a little more out of my Auras and I think I got a bit more out of them, but it may have been mostly overall volume.

I think things are starting to blend better. Of course I might just be getting used to the effects. I was setting up Dirt Rally 2.0 just before I started hearing big thunder and looked at my radar app and decided it might be best to turn all those electronics off. They have surge suppressors, but I only trust them so far. I run my Development box on a large fresh UPS, and I've not turned it off much in the last decade.

With Dirt Rally the effects vary quite a bit depending on the driving surface. Its hard to find something that feels right for all surfaces.
 
I forgot to mention that my Concert is not pistoning. There was something making a noise and the last time I was tweaking it, the noise just stopped! So now I'm running lower frequencies without any distracting noises.

Maybe it's because I was enjoying how some effects felt and just drove with it that way for a while. Anyway now I'm pushing it a lot harder.

And to be clear I tweaked settings one way and when the sound stopped I put it back where it was and the sound was still gone.
 
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I forgot to mention that my Concert is not pistoning. There was something making a noise and the last time I was tweaking it, the noise just stopped! So now I'm running lower frequencies without any distracting noises.

Maybe it's because I was enjoying how some effects felt and just drove with it that way for a while. Anyway now I'm pushing it a lot harder now.

And to be clear I tweaked settings one way and when the sound stopped I put it back where it was and the sound was stull gone.

My advice is to at least consider the t.tracks Mini DSP however it only supports 4 channels.
Depends if you are happy with PEACE APO but even after 3 years of asking others that highlighted and used this or other PC software for controlling tactile.

Not a single person even with multiple requests from me, has come up with their own thread and guide on how to use such with Simhub and multiple channel tactile installations. Nor has anyone ever released settings/profiles tuned for any of the specific make/models of transducers.

Let me compare:
I just had a personal client/beta tester from Russia yesterday who has waited months on hardware etc, get his first experience of my own "advanced effects" with a beta version of the Race-Bass springs installed.

He is using the recommended Stage 1 hardware installation. Within minutes he was, lets say excited, enjoying what it offers only needing to self-tune the effects volumes. He and other beta testers I will ask to give their own personal opinions on this concept I have worked on/off for 2 years and state what they want or truthfully think.

Right from the offset I had provided DSP settings to his dual BK LFE / Dual TST and 4 way Exciters on the seat. These can be later further refined. The biggest issue we had was mapping effects to the correct output channels but once this is done it's sorted. My Northern Ireland accent and Russian is not the most compatible, lol.

This is the way forward that someone can buy a package that just works and only needs minor tweaking to their preferences. That the whole thing has been pre-configured pre tested and developed with effects that are far beyond what standard effects offer. So I have sought after a small batch of beta testers from around the globe who are into racing the different sim titles and will all help to further develop effects with what this level of hardware and approach offers.


Other DSP Hardware:
Mini DSP has nice products but again when you go beyond 2/4 channels the price greatly increases.

Full Monty?
Someone with your experience in audio should then consider the more pro audio route.
In that you buy a multichannel interface, say one that supports 8-16 channels connect it to a DAW and then get the benefit of all the pro audio plugins that are available or may be included within the DAW.

I think we only have 2-3 people on the forums that went this route as yes it takes people with more of an audio background/experience to grasp more with the already confusion in tactile/audio,.

It is possible to do this with iPad and supported interfaces but for me, for my own needs, I personally outgrew this as that only supports 24 channels. You see, for my own build, I ended up wanting to have the most control over "each effect" as possible both for monitoring purposes but also altering the source. So I now output each effect via its own channel into the interface and into the DAW. Yet it was impressive what iPad could do with "AUM" software and iOS audio plugins are MUCH cheaper than PC/Mac counterparts.

I have spent more on audio hardware than a top-of-the-line DD Sim Wheel and Pro Pedals which I dont expect others to do but my own rig is entirely built around taking "tactile immersion" beyond what any other rig has ever done, its just my field of interest/hobby/passion.
 
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Oh godfather of tactile

we know you sell the one and only tactile solution.

Please keep in mind that not everybody has the time and income to "to do it right" by your standarts.

We appreciate the wealth of knowledge that you let us participate in and I especially am gratefull for your tipps for isolation.

What I can´t appreciate are the snide remarks for your "slow pupils" and the people that don´t answer your homework or let alone do things differently.
Yes, its aggravating to see the same questions every two month again for knowledge that is already out there and to have to answer questions for people who cannot be arsed to read four pages back.

But on the other hand:

last time I checked we were not in a pupil/teacher relationship and nobody ows another anything.

Why not try to make live easyer for all involved and only answer the questions you find worthy?

Why not not work with the selected few and let the rest stumble around?


Hoping for a better and friendlier community Carsten
 
@stigs2cousin
Please realize that I invited Mr. Latte to this party and called him out by name asking for his thoughts. So he is not inserting himself into this thread without my express invitation. I have not been offended in any way and welcome his suggestions.

I would ask you not to belittle anyone I specifically invited to give advice.

The bottom line is that my tactile effects are feeling much better based on advice that I've gotten from Mr. Latte and I don't want him to shy away from expressing his suggestions that I've specifically asked for.

Thanks!

FWIW I realize that rigs are a personal expression and people have different priorities at different times. Initially I built a cheap DIY amp and used $50 transducers and at the time it was "good enough" for me so I focused on many other things that were a higher priority to me. I don't regret the path I took. I still consider the other things I worked on important and I worked on things based on "my" pecking order of priority. Times change and priorities change. Now I've pretty well maxed out most things on my rig, but I'm just starting to tap into what tactile can add.
 
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